General Women should be silent ?Women shouldn't teach? REALLY??

LeeB

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Yikes!
You are a brave man Bvenski!
LoL

I haven’t watched the video yet.

One thing that I definitely disagree with is a woman putting on a head covering while a baptized 12 year old boy conducts a service group!
Show some respect kid !!!

As for Pauls statements, we have to consider who it was written to, the time, and situation. If you have a group of men who know very little about the bible and a woman who is very knowledgeable in biblical studies… does that make sense?
Since the Apostles are all dead the Apostolic era is over. Since their days Satan's attack on the church has been devastating. To address this problem the prophets told of a time when both men and women would be prophets. Today there is no ministry but prophets and all in the church learn and are taught directly by The Fathers Spirit. They shall all be taught by God and great will be the peace of your children. Your sons and daughters shall prophesy. There was Anna and Hulda. If God gives a gift to anyone they are to use it. The structure of ministry has changed in these last days because of necessity due to the great deception Jesus spoke about. Amos 3:7-8 , Acts 21:8-9 .
 
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LeeB

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I just shared this thread and didn't realize there were comments directed to me that I didn't answer - my apologies.

I do agree women aren't meant to be overseers and that is a loving thing as it is a very stressful and high-risk job. High risk because they will be held to a higher standard and judgment. But there is much women can do - I would imagine many women headed up committees that got things done - feeding the poor, helping orphans, preparing for visiting elders, etc.
The overseer is Jesus, there were women prophets in the church and if God gives a gift HE intends you to use it, not bury your talent.
 

LeeB

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Today the church no longer has a ministry because God has taken over due to the tremendous amount of deception He knew was coming. After the death of the Apostle John Ezekiel 34 kicked in. The invisible church, the true church went into the wilderness , similar to Abraham, was very small in number. The only office in the church is now Prophet and Prophetess because it is by divine revelation that God now teaches His people. Before this time during the Apostolic era women were not permitted to preach, teach or usurp authority over men spiritually. The only exception being if the woman was a prophetess. Stephen had 7 daughters that prophesied. Acts 21:9 God is not in the habit of giving gifts that are not to be used. Since today all the elect are prophets and prophetesses and are taught the same truth all contribute however they recognize that none of them are the head or teacher, they know Jesus is. They follow Paul’s teaching by the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 14:29-33
 

Bvenski

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Today the church no longer has a ministry because God has taken over due to the tremendous amount of deception He knew was coming. After the death of the Apostle John Ezekiel 34 kicked in. The invisible church, the true church went into the wilderness , similar to Abraham, was very small in number. The only office in the church is now Prophet and Prophetess because it is by divine revelation that God now teaches His people. Before this time during the Apostolic era women were not permitted to preach, teach or usurp authority over men spiritually. The only exception being if the woman was a prophetess. Stephen had 7 daughters that prophesied. Acts 21:9 God is not in the habit of giving gifts that are not to be used. Since today all the elect are prophets and prophetesses and are taught the same truth all contribute however they recognize that none of them are the head or teacher, they know Jesus is. They follow Paul’s teaching by the Spirit, 1 Corinthians 14:29-33
Are you suggesting that parts of Paul's epistles, like 1 Tim 3, Titus 1 and others, are now null & void & don't bother abiding by them? If so, I'm not on board with that. In addition, you are suggesting that ALL the elect are prophets & prophetess. Some are, but per 1 Cor 12:29, all are not prophets. It be hard to just dump this verse and others like it. Also, you are saying the Church no longer has a ministry, while Paul contradicts you in 1 Cor 12:5. I'm not sure where you are going with all this.
 

LeeB

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What church today is the church of Pentecost ? Did Jesus build one or many churches? Is there deception or not ? Are all churches correct and all who attend Christians ? I follow the doctrines of the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles but I see that the churches do not.
John said, you have no need that any man teach you because of having the anointing of the Spirit. Jesus said the Spirit is the teacher.
Do you think Satan has been idle or has he been active since the first century? Jesus spoke of a great deception as does Revelation and Peter and Paul and Jude to occur in the latter days. Due to this deception God took over the operation of the church eliminating the shepherds as Ezekiel 34 says. God teaches the elect by His Spirit through Jesus Christ.
 
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Bvenski

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What church today is the church of Pentecost ? Did Jesus build one or many churches? Is there deception or not ? Are all churches correct and all who attend Christians ? I follow the doctrines of the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles but I see that the churches do not.
John said, you have no need that any man teach you because of having the anointing of the Spirit. Jesus said the Spirit is the teacher.
Do you think Satan has been idle or has he been active since the first century? Jesus spoke of a great deception as does Revelation and Peter and Paul and Jude to occur in the latter days. Due to this deception God took over the operation of the church eliminating the shepherds as Ezekiel 34 says. God teaches the elect by His Spirit through Jesus Christ.
There are remnants of the Church of Pentecost today, who have the same beliefs and faith. Jesus built 1 Church and they go by different names, like the Church of Sardis (who were warned that they really needed to repent), the Church of Philadelphia, etc. Today there are few that are legit, such as the Church of God General Conference, Living Hope International Ministries, Christian Disciples Church, more Christian Monotarian Churches in Africa than in the USA, etc. The key word is few. Yes, there is deception, you have to call it out when it arises. You know many, many churches are not correct and fraudulent Christians are in there, come on.

You are most likely at a level or near where no man needs to teach you, but not all are at that level. The meat from the Spirit of God isn't first. Milk first, then meat. My little children are not at that level. I pray the God's Spirit, the same Spirit given to His son Jesus, works through me to teach them the true faith.

Satan's been active way before the first century. Not everything in Ezekiel 34 has come to pass. For example, some of us are still prey to the heathens/nations, per verse 28. Its debatable of when the strong delusion will occur or already has. 2 Thess 2:11 appears to indicate that the stong delusion will be sent by the God when the lawless one is revealed, but I'm open to the possibility that this delusion may have already been sent. I mean, just look around.

I am part of the body, part of the Church of God, and I'm not always correct. Be that as it may, instructions for how the Church is supposed to operate, while we wait for Jesus to return bodily, exist. To claim there are no Overseers or Elders or Churches of Christians (groups of called out ones) today, is something I don't believe. There are a few. We are attending one tomorrow morning.
 
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LeeB

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Kaironaut, one cannot live on milk forever just as men do not live on bread alone. If one does not grow one dies, only living things grow. Sardis is described by Jesus as dead with only very few who had any growth. Philadelphia is the church with the open door and is the only church existing currently. The Laodiceans will come soon and will face martyrdom for being neither cold or hot. Romans chapter 11 Paul explains how gentiles were grafted into spiritual Israel to replace the unbelieving Israel . The condition of the world today is now as described in Revelation 12:9 . You have your beliefs and I do not intend to comment on them or to convince you otherwise . All I can say is that as time continues things will change. There is only one remnant not many. Peter told the church in his day that the prophets were not serving themselves but serving the church. 1 Peter 1:12 The doors have not yet been shut, there is still some time left, but I do not know how much. The doors are that of the Philadelphia church, open now but closed when God determines. This is connected to the parable of the ten virgins. I close by saying that we all have our own road to travel and will only find where it leads when we reach its end. I hope the best for you on yours.
 

LeeB

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Kaironaut, one cannot live on milk forever just as men do not live on bread alone. If one does not grow one dies, only living things grow. Sardis is described by Jesus as dead with only very few who had any growth. Philadelphia is the church with the open door and is the only church existing currently. The Laodiceans will come soon and will face martyrdom for being neither cold or hot. Romans chapter 11 Paul explains how gentiles were grafted into spiritual Israel to replace the unbelieving Israel . The condition of the world today is now as described in Revelation 12:9 . You have your beliefs and I do not intend to comment on them or to convince you otherwise . All I can say is that as time continues things will change. There is only one remnant not many. Peter told the church in his day that the prophets were not serving themselves but serving the church. 1 Peter 1:12 The doors have not yet been shut, there is still some time left, but I do not know how much. The doors are that of the Philadelphia church, open now but closed when God determines. This is connected to the parable of the ten virgins. I close by saying that we all have our own road to travel and will only find where it leads when we reach its end. I hope the best for you on yours.
Isaiah 1:9 , Isaiah 10:20 , Romans 9:29
 

LeeB

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Yikes!
You are a brave man Bvenski!
LoL

I haven’t watched the video yet.

One thing that I definitely disagree with is a woman putting on a head covering while a baptized 12 year old boy conducts a service group!
Show some respect kid !!!

As for Pauls statements, we have to consider who it was written to, the time, and situation. If you have a group of men who know very little about the bible and a woman who is very knowledgeable in biblical studies… does that make sense?
I think the head coverings were the long hair of women, 1 Corinthians 11:15
 

Outcast

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It is so difficult to us to see the Paternalistic society as it was under the Old Covenant and then to see what the New Covenant "there is no male nor female."
How are we to see that?
In the end, no matter how one manages to decide the view; it is still a valid position that Yahweh gives gifts to those He assigns roles.
If it were not for the women, many local church ministries would fade to black.
 

LeeB

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Yahweh holds men responsible because Adam failed to be responsible.
Adam was first formed then Eve. Adam was not deceived. For these reasons we have been given, 1 Corinthians 11:3 It is when we are in the kingdom there is no gender.
 

Outcast

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Hello LeeB, I think gender it is not about a future status.

This passage from Paul shows an action in the past that now exists in the present: Ga 3:27–29 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

When Paul was speaking to those of the diaspora, he was dealing with those with the current mindset of Israel regarding the family structure and paternalistic society. His words to them are one thing, but his action speak louder.

In Romans 16:3-4, Paul writes, “Greet Prisca and Aquila, my co-workers in Christ Jesus, who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I am grateful but also all the churches of the Gentiles….” He also tells us that when he first arrived in Corinth, he stayed with Prisca and Aquila. Prisca and Aquila went with him from there.. Also, this chapter casts this married couple in the role of teachers whose authority is recognized by others. When they heard Apollo speak, they take him aside and “explain to him the Way more accurately.”

Paul commends another woman in Romans 16:1-2 who was a leader in a port city near Corinth. “I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a minister of the Church at Cenchreae, that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the holy ones, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a benefactor to many and to me as well”

The word minister (or servant) in modern translations is the Greek word diakonos (deacon). Phoebe is the only woman specifically named a deacon in the New Testament. In the days of Paul’s ministry the role of the deacon was evolving from its first servant status. It involved an official function of some kind, most likely a pastoral one.

In the present context, Paul’s reference to Phoebe is in the form of a letter of recommendation so that she will be welcomed with hospitality when she reaches the Christian community in Rome. He recognized her as a sister in the faith, a deacon or minister whose service is trustworthy, and finally as a “benefactor to many.”

In his commendations in Romans, Paul mentions five other women who are "workers in the Lord" by name: Mary, Junia, Julia, Tryphaena, and Tryphosa. Although the descriptions are brief, the fact that Paul singles them out indicates his respect for their ministry. Julia is merely named as one to be greeted. He noted that Mary “has worked hard for you.” Similarly, Tryphaena and Tryphosa are commended as “workers in the Lord.” Junia and Andronicus are described with more detail as “my relatives and my fellow prisoners; they are prominent among the apostles, and they were in Christ before me”.

The title apostle is used by Luke only to describe “the twelve,” but Paul claims the title for himself (Galatians 1:1, 1 Corinthians 9:1-2).

For Paul, to be an apostle is to have authority, to be sent with the power of the risen Jesus to bring the gospel message to others. For Paul to describe Junia and Andronicus as “prominent among the apostles,” then, implies that they were missionaries empowered to carry the message of Jesus to others.

Paul speaks of his appreciation for the ministry of Euodia and Syntyche in Philippi. “They have struggled at my side promoting the gospel” (Philippians 4:3).

So, is Paul hostile toward women in ministry? 1 Corinthians 14:34-35: “Women should keep silent in tallowed to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. But if they want to learn anything, they should ask their husbands at home. For it is improper for a woman to speak in the church.”

This seems to contradict his acceptance and commendation of women’s leadership. They also directly contradict an earlier passage in this same letter, where Paul assumes that women do both pray and prophesy in the Corinthian community. 1 Co 11:4–5 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.

In his own letters, he does not appear to have any desire to limit their activity. Rather, he commends them for their work as he does their partners Aquila and Andronicus. Perhaps, the transition between societal norms was a complicated one?
 

LeeB

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A marriage is a shadow of Christ and the church, the husband is Christ and the wife is the church so , Ephesians 5:24 The covering is a woman’s long hair, 1 Corinthians 11:15 As we have discussed previously, the only teacher is YAHWEHS spirit through the mediator Christ. You may or may not say some truth to someone but the understanding of it comes through YAHWEH. The church is like an embryo waiting to be born as a new creation, no one has yet experienced this new birth, it is salvation, John 3:6 While still human there are rules of behavior for both male and female. Julia and Andronicus were “prominent “ , this is not saying they were Apostles, but were of note, important and deserving of being remembered, to catch the attention of others, see Strongs G1978 and 2158. The Apostles took note of them , noticed them.
Today, the church has no resemblance to the organization of the first century because YAHWEH has removed all human shepherds and all the current elect are prophets and prophetesses receiving divine teachings from YAHWEH through Christ. When I meet with the small group I fellowship with we are all free to speak and share our thoughts with each other. We have no human leader, our leader is Christ by the will of YAHWEH. 1 Corinthians 14:29,30,31,32,33 1 Corinthians 11:5 seems to indicate that women did prophesy and Acts 21:8,9 there were women prophetesses in the old covenant. Remember the Corinthian church had many problems, 1 Corinthians 14:26 , church meetings were chaos and confusion. 1 Corinthians 14:33,40 there was disorder. These rules Paul instituted may have been given to address this problem .
 
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LeeB

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Husbands are to love their wives as Jesus loved the church. If husbands truly did this their wives should have no problem in submitting in love. The woman seems to have a problem respecting the husband because Paul reminds them it is their christian duty. The wife loves no one greater than their husband just as we should love no one greater than Jesus. The two are to become one flesh as the saints are to be one in YAHWEH and Christ and one spirit with him. If you read about all the problems in the Corinthian church there were many; immorality, divisions, lawsuits, being drunk, attitudes of superiority, sexual misbehavior and others. To some extant Paul had to deal with problems in all the churches. Could this have been some tares among the wheat ? The first Adam gave into his wife, hearkened to her voice and not the voice of GOD. Adam loved his wife more than he loved GOD. Because of this GOD commanded that , Genesis 3:16
This command is still in force today but the world ignores it and the church follows it. All of this is done in YAHWEHS love working in the saints. The only two titles that women had in scripture were deaconess and prophetess. The same is true today. There is no record in new testament scriptures of a woman in the ministry. Today the ministry is YAHWEH and Jesus only and the saints all prophets and prophetesses.
 
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Outcast

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Husbands are to love their wives as Jesus loved the church. If husbands truly did this their wives should have no problem in submitting in love. The woman seems to have a problem respecting the husband because Paul reminds them it is their christian duty. The wife loves no one greater than their husband just as we should love no one greater than Jesus. The two are to become one flesh as the saints are to be one in YAHWEH and Christ and one spirit with him. If you read about all the problems in the Corinthian church there were many; immorality, divisions, lawsuits, being drunk, attitudes of superiority, sexual misbehavior and others. To some extant Paul had to deal with problems in all the churches. Could this have been some tares among the wheat ? The first Adam gave into his wife, hearkened to her voice and not the voice of GOD. Adam loved his wife more than he loved GOD. Because of this GOD commanded that , Genesis 3:16
This command is still in force today but the world ignores it and the church follows it. All of this is done in YAHWEHS love working in the saints. The only two titles that women had in scripture were deaconess and prophetess. The same is true today. There is no record in new testament scriptures of a woman in the ministry. Today the ministry is YAHWEH and Jesus only and the saints all prophets and prophetesses.
I do have questions about one sentence brother:

The wife loves no one greater than their husband just as we should love no one greater than Jesus.
While I am good with loving the Son of God, even He said:

And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

I have no issue with Gen 3:16 either. Our issue is understanding what the concept of "rule" really is. In many places in scripture, the idea is "to have authority over." Backing up and looking at the concept, it makes practical sense that a family has one person with final authority. But, those who love Yahweh and follow His Son hold that Yahweh has final authority, and that He gave that authority to His Son until all is done.

All that being said, from my experience, man has delegated most all local church work to women. Their programs would die on the vine without those females playing the part of the original deacons.
 

LeeB

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I do have questions about one sentence brother:

The wife loves no one greater than their husband just as we should love no one greater than Jesus.
While I am good with loving the Son of God, even He said:

And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

I have no issue with Gen 3:16 either. Our issue is understanding what the concept of "rule" really is. In many places in scripture, the idea is "to have authority over." Backing up and looking at the concept, it makes practical sense that a family has one person with final authority. But, those who love Yahweh and follow His Son hold that Yahweh has final authority, and that He gave that authority to His Son until all is done.

All that being said, from my experience, man has delegated most all local church work to women. Their programs would die on the vine without those females playing the part of the origina
 

LeeB

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I do have questions about one sentence brother:

The wife loves no one greater than their husband just as we should love no one greater than Jesus.
While I am good with loving the Son of God, even He said:

And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

I have no issue with Gen 3:16 either. Our issue is understanding what the concept of "rule" really is. In many places in scripture, the idea is "to have authority over." Backing up and looking at the concept, it makes practical sense that a family has one person with final authority. But, those who love Yahweh and follow His Son hold that Yahweh has final authority, and that He gave that authority to His Son until all is done.

All that being said, from my experience, man has delegated most all local church work to women. Their programs would die on the vine without those females playing the part of the original deacons.
Matthew 10:37 Luke 14:26 By the will of YAHWEH Jesus is the messiah and the saints love him in the same way they love YAHWEH . YAHWEH and Jesus both deserve the same honor, John 5:22,23 1 John 2:23 Jesus and YAHWEH are “one” and the saints in that day will be “one” with them. John 17:21
 

LeeB

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Matthew 10:37 Luke 14:26 By the will of YAHWEH Jesus is the messiah and the saints love him in the same way they love YAHWEH . YAHWEH and Jesus both deserve the same honor, John 5:22,23 1 John 2:23 Jesus and YAHWEH are “one” and the saints in that day will be “one” with them. John 17:21
Another thought. When you love YAHWEH you are aware of who you are loving and when love Christ you know also. It’s like worshipping. You worship YAHWEH only as the one true GOD and worship Jesus as HIS son and messiah. You honor the son as you honor the FATHER.
 
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Aristid

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Thank you so much for raising the topic. I have repeatedly come across a similar opinion in the assembly: a woman should listen in silence, without questioning the words of her brothers in the slightest. In my opinion, an egregious case occurred in one city in our region. During the homecoming sermon, the sister told her brother that he was not explaining the Bible verse accurately. The brother was offended and ran to complain to the elder. The elder had a stern conversation with his sister and stated that sisters should never, under any circumstances, correct their brothers. I am sure that this was a vivid manifestation of male chauvinism, for which there is no basis in the Bible. Who judged Israel in the time of Barak? A woman named Devora. Who stopped David and his 400 warriors from terrible and unjust bloodshed? A woman named Abigail. Who saved the city of Abel beth Maachu when it was besieged by David's army because of a scoundrel? She was a wise woman, whose name is not called. What were the elders of the city doing at that time? They were cowardly silent. Many innocent people almost died because of them. The woman saved the situation. Somehow, this does not really fit in with the limited understanding of the words of the Apostle Paul: they say, a woman should always be silent in the assembly. And sometimes you can't be silent. Besides, what is hierarchy worth if God's law is violated? It is necessary to take into account the circumstances. And I would also like all pastors to prepare well for public speaking and meet the biblical requirements in practice, so that they can be easily respected.
 

Outcast

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Another thought. When you love YAHWEH you are aware of who you are loving and when love Christ you know also. It’s like worshipping. You worship YAHWEH only as the one true GOD and worship Jesus as HIS son and messiah. You honor the son as you honor the FATHER.
If I appear to be nit-picking, I apologize. Perhaps I am not complete in my transition from the trinity as the after-effects are still lurking.