General Question for trinis.....

[Shelley]

The unitarian position, in as much as I understand it, is that the son was begotten on earth when he was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary. His existence as a person and as a human being were simultaneous. Jesus was and always will be a human. A perfect human with a special role to play in God's person.

The trinitarian position is that the Son was begotten by God before the beginning of the world. (John 17:5) The origin of his existence is before time began. (I know. That makes my head hurt.) When he was begotten he shared all of the same attributes as his Father and then he took on human form in the person of Jesus.

Yes you explained that fantastic! Finally some clarity So the JW's doctrine agrees with the doctrine of the Trinity sort of almost. Well at least more than the Unitarian view. Hummm.

 

[stignatius]

Yes you explained that fantastic! Finally some clarity So the JW's doctrine agrees with the doctrine of the Trinity sort of almost. Well at least more than the Unitarian view. Hummm.

Kinda.

JWs would say that Jesus was a created angel. Jesus is a finite being that doesn't share in God's essence or nature. They would also say it's wrong to worship or pray to him.

 

[benadam1974]

Because he created the physical universe

So what did you mean when you said "they each have different roles or ministries"?

 

[Lori Jane]

Jesus was and always will be a human. A perfect human with a special role to play in God's purpose.

I would clarify that Jesus is the first of the "New Creation". He is NOW divine, he has been given all authority in heaven and earth and will be coming back to establish God's Kingdom that he preached about as the "Gospel of the Kingdom". We are in line to be a new creation like him (2 Cor 5.17).

He called us his brothers (and sisters) (Matt 28.10; John 20:17) - we are his siblings, not his children. We are children of God. Jesus is one of those children - a specially begotten one of course (Heb. 1:5; Heb 5:5; 1 John 5:1). He had to be as Adam was to be a true second Adam (1 Co 15.45 Rom 5.14; Rom 5.19). Adam had a special spiritual relationship with God the Almighty. Jesus had that same kind of relationship since God's holy spirit (his personal presence and power) was upon him since conception. (Luke 1:35).

 

[stignatius]

So what did you mean when you said "they each have different roles or ministries"?

I would say that none of their roles are mutually exclusive. But, certain functions of God are more closely associated with different persons of the trinity.

The Spirit serves as teacher. (Psalm 32:8, John 14:26) The Greek word translated "teacher" in the ESV is Parakletos, which can mean "legal counsel". The Spirit dwells in all believers. (Exodus 29:45, 1 Corinthians 3:16) He guides into all the Truth. (Psalm 25:9, John 16:13-15)

The Son has taken on humanity as serves as our high priest and mediator. (Leviticus 8:9, Hebrews 7:3) The Son is also a translation of God's nature as the Word (Ezekiel 1:3 Micah 1:1 John 1:1) He created and sustains the universe. (John 1:2, 3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:3 10-12)

The Father is responsible for our election. (Deuteronomy 7:6, Ephesians 1:3, 4) He draws us to the Son. (Exodus 19:4, John 6:44) And the Father is the one who glorifies us and all of creation. (Isaiah 6:3, Habakkuk 2:14, John 17:24) And all of the glory goes back to Him. (John 5:23, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Philippians 4:20)

 

[stignatius]

I would clarify that Jesus is the first of the "New Creation". He is NOW divine, he has been given all authority in heaven and earth and will be coming back to establish God's Kingdom that he preached about as the "Gospel of the Kingdom". We are in line to be a new creation like him (2 Cor 5.17).

He called us his brothers (and sisters) (Matt 28.10; John 20:17) - we are his siblings, not his children. We are children of God. Jesus is one of those children - a specially begotten one of course (Heb. 1:5; Heb 5:5; 1 John 5:1). He had to be as Adam was to be a true second Adam (1 Co 15.45 Rom 5.14; Rom 5.19). Adam had a special spiritual relationship with God the Almighty. Jesus had that same kind of relationship since God's holy spirit (his personal presence and power) was upon him since conception. (Luke 1:35).


View attachment 143

Thank you for that summary. Does that mean that we will be divine someday?

 

[benadam1974]

I would say that none of their roles are mutually exclusive. But, certain functions of God are more closely associated with different persons of the trinity.

The Spirit serves as teacher. (Psalm 32:8, John 14:26) The Greek word translated "teacher" in the ESV is Parakletos, which can mean "legal counsel". The Spirit dwells in all believers. (Exodus 29:45, 1 Corinthians 3:16) He guides into all the Truth. (Psalm 25:9, John 16:13-15)

The Son has taken on humanity as serves as our high priest and mediator. (Leviticus 8:9, Hebrews 7:3) The Son is also a translation of God's nature as the Word (Ezekiel 1:3 Micah 1:1 John 1:1) He created and sustains the universe. (John 1:2, 3, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:3 10-12)

The Father is responsible for our election. (Deuteronomy 7:6, Ephesians 1:3, 4) He draws us to the Son. (Exodus 19:4, John 6:44) And the Father is the one who glorifies us and all of creation. (Isaiah 6:3, Habakkuk 2:14, John 17:24) And all of the glory goes back to Him. (John 5:23, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Philippians 4:20)

So the roles are "different" but not "mutually exclusive"?

 

[stignatius]

So the roles are "different" but not "mutually exclusive"?

Yes.