General Question for trinis.....
- Thread starter benadam1974
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Just btw... The scripture you cited mentions multiple people being made the image of God. He made "humanity" in his image. Interesting... Sounds like God is love and dwells in a community.
And because he made male and female in his image, it also sounds like no one person can fully image every aspect of God. You need women to image God's feminine traits and men to image God's masculine traits and when they come together they make a family that images a different aspect of God.
And because he made male and female in his image, it also sounds like no one person can fully image every aspect of God. You need women to image God's feminine traits and men to image God's masculine traits and when they come together they make a family that images a different aspect of God.
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Well, first of all note how infrequently God is referred to as Father in the OT compared with the NT. I can only find 9 instances and it typically refers to God's relationship with Israel as a nation. God is referred to as Father 221 times in the NT.
Second, the orthodox trinitarian doctrine affirms that the Father begot the Son before all time, not the other way around. So, trinitarians believe that the Father is the well-spring of being. He's the source of existence. And although Colossians 1:16 says that all things were created through the Son and for him, that doesn't mean he's the source of his own existence or of reality. That's something that only the Father can claim, at least under orthodox trinitarianism. That's a part of why trinitarians pray primarily to the Father.
Second, the orthodox trinitarian doctrine affirms that the Father begot the Son before all time, not the other way around. So, trinitarians believe that the Father is the well-spring of being. He's the source of existence. And although Colossians 1:16 says that all things were created through the Son and for him, that doesn't mean he's the source of his own existence or of reality. That's something that only the Father can claim, at least under orthodox trinitarianism. That's a part of why trinitarians pray primarily to the Father.
Interesting thanks for the insight.
My question had to do more with male or female hierarchy.
Oh, I see. I honestly don't know how I'd answer that. I'm planning on reading a book that deals with that question.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EO3OXRA/?tag=scf089-20
I would add that some have mentioned that just as men and women are complete equals, but one submits to the other in the family. Likewise, although the Father and the Son are equal in their nature, one submits to other as head. (1 Corinthians 11:3)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EO3OXRA/?tag=scf089-20
I would add that some have mentioned that just as men and women are complete equals, but one submits to the other in the family. Likewise, although the Father and the Son are equal in their nature, one submits to other as head. (1 Corinthians 11:3)
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Yes the perichoresis of social Trinity.
But isn’t the role of Creator also assigned to the Son and the Spirit?
Sure. You could say they each have different roles or ministries. The Father shared the work of creation with Son and Spirit.
But, that doesn't mean the Son or the Spirit are the ultimate authors of reality. The Son's role in the creation and sustaining of the universe is mentioned in Hebrews 1:3, 10-12.
But, that doesn't mean the Son or the Spirit are the ultimate authors of reality. The Son's role in the creation and sustaining of the universe is mentioned in Hebrews 1:3, 10-12.
Interesting, only the Father can claim to have not been created? Is this what you mean? I always wondered why Trinitarians prayed saying Father in the start of the prayer and ending with through the son. So basically all of us use the same model prayer.
Boy, I am truly confused. If the "Father begot the son" Then how can they be the same person?
Only the Father can claim to be the origin of all existence. Yes.
Orthodox trinitarians do not say that the Son was created, however. They say he was begotten. What's the difference? You and I can create things that are not like us, a table, a painting, a robot, whatever you like. But, we can only beget one thing, other humans. Humans who are no less human than we are.
Likewise, God created a host of things which do not have the same nature as he does. But, what God begets is God.
The orthodox trinitarian teaching is that the Father and Son are not the same person. But, they are equals in their nature. Both are omnipotent, omniscient and so on. Both have an infinite nature.
This was a search in logos bible software for "father' as God.
Interesting to note that Deut 32.6, Isa 63.16 and Isa 64.8 equate Yaweh (YHWH) with "father". It is my understanding the orthodox trinity teaching is that YHWH represents the composite of (Father, Son and Holy Spirit).
Trinitarians tend to think of YHWH as being something more like a last name. And of course, we have no objection to seeing the Son as being our father in a certain sense of the word. (Isaiah 9:6)
And I'm sure you'd agree, the NT represents a change of relationship between God and humanity. Only after Jesus and his death and our being born again was it possible for us to call God our Father in fuller sense.
And I'm sure you'd agree, the NT represents a change of relationship between God and humanity. Only after Jesus and his death and our being born again was it possible for us to call God our Father in fuller sense.
Hmmm I was told by one of the posters in this forum that YHWH goes in the center circle on this diagram. Did I get that wrong?
Yes, I got that you said "begotten" I didn't think you said the son was created. Unitarians also believe the son was begotten. Is it that the timing of the begetting is different? Or? Can you explain a bit about why Uni's and Trini's differ? I truly want to understand the difference.
The unitarian position, in as much as I understand it, is that the son was begotten on earth when he was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary. His existence as a person and as a human being were simultaneous. Jesus was and always will be a human. A perfect human with a special role to play in God's purpose.
The trinitarian position is that the Son was begotten by God before the beginning of the world. (John 17:5) The origin of his existence is before time began. (I know. That makes my head hurt.) When he was begotten he shared all of the same attributes as his Father and then he took on human form in the person of Jesus.
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That's correct! (John 17:11) Trinitarians would say that the Son is Yahweh as well.Hmmm I was told by one of the posters in this forum that YHWH goes in the center circle on this diagram. Did I get that wrong?
Matthew 1:21-23:
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus (Yahweh Saves), for he will save his people from their sins.” All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son,
and they shall call his name Immanuel” (which means, God with us).