Video Summary How Christians Gathered in the 1st Century, and Why We Should Care

[Lori Jane]

Great video shared by @Petunia

How Christians Gathered in the 1st Century, and Why We Should Care, with Dr Tom Wadsworth


12,173 views views

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Description

The episode, posted Oct. 6, 2024, features a conversation between Jeremy Pryor and Dr. Tom Wadsworth on the historical understanding of early Christian gatherings and worship practices. The discussion explores how the Lord's Supper evolved from the representation of Jesus' sacrifice to being viewed as a sacrifice offered by Christians to God, reflecting broader cultural influences from Judaism and paganism. The podcast delves into the structure of early assemblies, the significance of household gatherings, and the development of church liturgy and leadership over the centuries. It also tackles contentious issues such as the descriptive versus prescriptive debate in interpreting New Testament practices and the challenges of transitioning from structured worship services to more informal, participatory gatherings in homes.

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Summary​

• The Lord's Supper represents both Jesus' sacrifice for humanity and, in some interpretations, a sacrifice that believers offer to God, highlighting its dual significance in worship and theology.
• Conversations regarding how Christians gather can be contentious because individuals hold strong beliefs about their worship being correct, leading to defensiveness against differing interpretations or suggestions that challenge their practices.
• Initially, the Lord's Supper was understood as a remembrance of Christ's sacrifice. Over time, however, this perception shifted, and it began to be seen as a sacrifice offered to God by the church, paralleling practices in ancient religious traditions. This transformation reflects the broader evolution of worship styles and terminologies within the developing Christian faith.
• The concept of liturgy served primarily as a means of communal worship in the early church, marked by recitations and simple gatherings. However, as the church evolved, liturgy began to take on more complex structures reminiscent of Jewish temple practices and Pagan rituals, incorporating formal roles such as priests and the use of altars.
• Paul's letter to the Corinthians highlights the importance of order, mutual edification, and love during church gatherings. He addresses the chaotic nature of their meetings and instructs them to focus on building each other up, suggesting that worship should be more about community interaction and less about individual performance.
• Key characteristics of a house church include informal gatherings typically within personal homes, an emphasis on community and mutual support, and a dynamic where diverse spiritual gifts are expressed among members. The atmosphere tends to be more intimate, facilitating open discussions and deeper relationships compared to formal church settings.
• Social expectations can create barriers to authentic communication, leading individuals to withhold their true selves for fear of judgment. This can hinder the development of genuine relationships and a trusting community atmosphere.
• Practices such as shared meals, open discussions, and group teachings foster a sense of belonging. Encouraging everyone to participate creates opportunities for diverse perspectives to be heard, enriching the communal experience.
• Teaching facilitates knowledge sharing and skill development, empowering individuals to articulate their thoughts and beliefs. It also nurtures a culture of learning where members can grow together and support one another's spiritual journeys.
• Understanding "ekklesia" as "assembly" instead of "church" emphasizes the communal and civic nature of early gatherings, suggesting they were inclusive groups focused on fellowship rather than formal institutions.
• The strong familial bonds among early Christians created an environment rich in support and community, as members treated each other as siblings, enhancing their sense of belonging and commitment to one another.
• Equality in early church assemblies represented a revolutionary concept of mutual respect, where all members had an equal voice and role, transcending societal norms of hierarchy and elitism.
• Elders in early churches served as multiple leaders to provide guidance and prevent potential abuses of power by any single individual, reflecting a collaborative approach to church governance.
• Individuals can access further materials through the speaker's website and YouTube channel, which host various videos and resources discussing the topics in depth.
• The desire for reform is often linked to a longing to return to the intentions behind original texts, suggesting that contemporary practices may have strayed from foundational principles that many believe need to be revisited and honored.
• Open discussions about contentious subjects can be challenging due to preconceived notions, emotional responses, and potential backlash from differing viewpoints, which may hinder meaningful dialogue.
• The increased viewership suggests a growing interest in the subjects being discussed, indicating that many people are seeking out deeper insights and reformative ideas within their spiritual practices.
• Respecting diverse opinions fosters a more inclusive environment where different perspectives can lead to deeper understanding and collaboration rather than division.

How Christians Gathered in the 1st Century, and Why We Should Care, with Dr Tom Wadsworth​

The Lord's Supper as Sacrifice 00:00​

The Lord's Supper has been viewed as our sacrifice to God.

• Initially, the Lord's Supper is understood through the lens of Jesus' sacrifice for humanity as presented in the New Testament.
• Over time, however, some early Christians began to interpret the ritual as a form of sacrifice that believers offer to God, creating a significant shift in understanding.
• This interpretation parallels rituals found in both Jewish and Pagan traditions, where offering sacrifices at temples was a common practice.

Controversy in Understanding Christian Gatherings 01:32​

People are defensive about how they worship God, seeing questions as challenges to their beliefs.

• Conversations about the nature of Christian gatherings often lead to strong emotional responses because individuals believe they are worshiping correctly, and any challenge to that can provoke defensiveness.
• Many churches possess deeply ingrained doctrines suggesting they have maintained the original biblical assembly, causing them to dismiss differing perspectives as heretical.
• The speaker emphasizes that examination of the New Testament can foster a productive dialogue, rather than breeding conflict around differing interpretations.

The Descriptive vs. Prescriptive Debate 06:02​

There are prescriptive and descriptive elements in the New Testament regarding Christian gatherings.

• While some argue that the New Testament offers only descriptive accounts of early Christian gatherings, others assert that there are prescriptive elements, particularly in the writings of Paul.
• The speaker's approach involves setting aside the prescriptive versus descriptive debate to investigate how first-century Christians understood their assemblies, focusing on their practices, goals, and terminology.
• By examining these elements, the aim is to uncover what contemporary gatherings might be missing compared to those of the first-century church.

Liturgy and Its Historical Context 10:14​

The discussion of liturgy emerged as an important aspect of early Christian worship.

• Liturgy, defined as the structured form of worship, became a crucial topic in understanding how early Christians gathered and practiced their faith.
• The speaker notes that while: "I didn't even think about liturgy being an issue," it soon became apparent that examining liturgical practices could reveal insights into first-century Christianity.
• There is ongoing debate about whether current liturgical practices, especially in traditions claiming continuity from the early church, actually align with the original forms of worship as practiced by the first Christians.

Understanding Liturgy and Its Evolution 10:36​

"Liturgy consists of repetitive statements recited in assemblies, such as The Lord's Prayer, establishing a practice of communal worship."

• The speaker defines liturgy as the practice of repetitive statements that are commonly recited in assemblies, providing examples such as The Lord's Prayer and responsive phrases like "The Lord be with you." This indicates a ritualistic aspect of worship that has been part of various religious practices.

Pan Luris and Historical Context 11:19​

"In 1959, a New Testament scholar proposed 'pan luris,' suggesting that liturgy was prevalent throughout the New Testament, including in the Gospels."

• The term "pan luris," introduced by a scholar in 1959, points to a significant view among New Testament scholars who believed that liturgical practices were embedded throughout the New Testament. It emerged during a time of increased ecumenical dialogue between Catholicism and Protestantism, especially leading up to Vatican II, highlighting the struggle for unity over differing liturgical practices.

The Illusion of Early Church Liturgy 12:38​

"Scholars later discovered that what was presumed as liturgy in the New Testament was absent, leading to the reevaluation of historical scholarship."

• The initial assumption that liturgical practices existed within early Christian texts came under scrutiny as researchers examined the New Testament more critically. Many scholars concluded that the presence of liturgy as understood in later centuries was anachronistically applied to early Christian texts, resulting in a mistaken belief in a liturgical framework that did not actually exist.

Shifts in Understanding Worship Practices 13:24​

"Early literature reveals that language around worship began to evolve, marking a transformation from simple gatherings to formalized practices."

• A deep dive into second, third, and fourth-century literature shows a significant transition in how early Christians began to perceive their worship practices. The terminology shifted to imply a more formal ritual, akin to Temple sacrifices, as language of sacrifice and priesthood started to emerge, reflecting influences from both Jewish and Pagan religious traditions.

The Evolution of Worship Terminology 15:46​

"By the fourth century, the language around Christian worship evolved to include concepts such as priests, altars, and temples."

• As Christian worship began to evolve in the later centuries, elements such as the Lord's Supper transitioned from being viewed purely as a commemorative act to resembling the structure of a sacrifice performed by a priest on an altar within a temple. This development aligns more closely with established practices in both Judaism and the Pagan worship milieu of that era.

House Churches and Gathering Dynamics 21:32​

"House churches are mentioned at least five times, and that's how they met."

• The concept of house churches as the primary gathering spots for early Christians is emphasized. This structure was not solely due to persecution; it was a natural and practical way for people to gather within their communities. Over time, this informal setting allowed for varied expressions of worship and fellowship, fostering deeper relationships among members.

Informality and Order in Worship 22:40​

"Paul wants to bring order... things should be done decently and in order."

• In 1 Corinthians 14, Paul addresses a chaotic but informal gathering style where believers are encouraged to express their spiritual gifts. He stresses the necessity of order to ensure that all activities within the assembly contribute to mutual edification. The emphasis is on using personal gifts for the building up of the community rather than for individual showmanship.

The Role of 'One Another' in Community 24:44​

"This phrase 'one another' is used over a hundred times in the New Testament."

• The New Testament emphasizes the concept of 'one another,' signifying the importance of mutual support and encouragement among believers. Gathering in this manner opens avenues for prayer, confession, and nurturing each other's faith. Paul wants this interpersonal dynamic to underscore communal activities, indicating that love and compassion should prevail during gatherings.

Challenges of Professionalism in Assembly 29:10​

"We've become so accustomed to professionalism in our assemblies."

• The modern church often prioritizes professionalism and structured services over informal communal interactions. This can stifle genuine participation and growth. When gatherings become overly choreographed, they may discourage members from expressing themselves and contributing, ultimately leading to a disconnect from the intended spirit of community.

Letting Go of Inhibition 30:58​

"The pent-up inhibition starts to go away and all this expectation of perfection starts to fade because it's just us."

• People often hold on to expectations of perfection that prevent them from experiencing authentic connections. This realization encourages individuals to accept themselves and others, flaws and all.
• Love and compassion become central themes when we allow ourselves to be vulnerable and patient with one another. By actively listening to others, we open doors to new perspectives that can enrich our understanding of the world.
• Each person carries unique insights that challenge our viewpoints, and it's essential to create an environment where everyone feels comfortable sharing their thoughts.

The Transition to Community Engagement 31:27​

"It's a tough transition, I'm really curious..."

• Transitioning from familiar environments, such as childcare or controlled settings, to engaging in communal activities can be challenging. These shifts often require adjusting to more spontaneous and less structured situations.
• Community gatherings historically involved sharing meals, public readings of scripture, and possibly singing, as evidenced in biblical texts, indicating a focus on togetherness and shared learning.

The Role of Teaching in Gatherings 33:10​

"Teaching, teaching, teaching...there seems to be this expectation that after attending an assembly, we ought to be developing our ability to communicate."

• Teaching emerges as a crucial component in community gatherings, where individuals are encouraged to develop skills in expressing their beliefs and thoughts.
• A vital aspect of congregational life is ensuring that more members participate in teaching rather than a single person monopolizing the space, promoting a diverse exchange of ideas and fostering growth.

The Nature of Prophecy 36:21​

"Paul emphasizes prophecy as being desirable because it is for the edification of others."

• In discussing prophecy in community settings, the emphasis is on its role in building up members rather than merely foretelling future events. Prophecy serves as a tool for mutual encouragement and spiritual growth.
• The distinction between "foretelling" and "forthtelling" reflects the broader functions of prophecy, where both involve imparting truth but differ in their approach and focus.

Leadership Structure in Early Churches 40:42​

"Elders is the most common term that is used to refer to these leaders."

• In early churches, leadership was typically comprised of multiple elders rather than a single elder. This multiplicity of leaders helps mitigate the potential for abuse of power by any one person in authority.
• The discussion highlights a recent uptick in scandals within churches, which many believe could have been lessened with a structure of multiple elders.
• The case of the Corinthian church illustrates the potential for division as several factions arose, each claiming allegiance to different figures like Paul, Apollos, or Christ, resulting in a loss of unified leadership.

The Meaning of "Ekklesia" 43:08​

"I would probably start to translate 'ekklesia' wherever it is found with the word assembly."

• The term "ekklesia," often translated as "church," is suggested to be better understood as "assembly," which captures its civic origins when used in the New Testament and other early texts.
• The distinction is made based on the Greek roots of the word, which implies a gathering or assembly of individuals, rather than the modern church connotation that has developed over time.
• This understanding reshapes how we view the gatherings of early Christians, indicating they were more communal assemblies rather than formal, institutional churches as we might perceive them today.

Family and Relationships in the Early Church 45:00​

"The family of the first-century church was characterized by deeper sibling relationships that modern people would find remarkable."

• First-century Christians experienced a profound sense of familial bond among community members, which extended beyond biological ties. This presented a unique sense of belonging and unity in the church.
• There is a notion that the modern understanding of such relationships has weakened, making it harder for contemporary believers to relate to the depth of connection early Christians experienced.
• The idea of “spiritual siblings” was revolutionary at that time, as it extended familial love and acceptance to those outside traditional family structures.

Equality and Mutuality in Early Assemblies 47:26​

"This is what's breathing life throughout the organization and allowing people to realize that they're important."

• The early Christian assemblies promoted a culture of equality, where everyone—regardless of social status, gender, or background—was seen as valuable and integral to the community.
• This egalitarian ethos was a radical departure from the hierarchical structures prevalent in society and illustrated a new model where all individuals could contribute meaningfully.
• Paul emphasizes that all believers are "saints" and part of the same community, reinforcing the idea that no one is better than anyone else within the assembly, fostering an environment of mutual respect and collaboration.

Importance of Diverse Opinions 51:09​

"Do your best to apply it as best as you can in your own context, but stop condemning other people for coming to different points of view on it."

• The speaker emphasizes the need for personal interpretation of ideas while respecting the diversity of opinions. It's crucial for individuals to engage with topics thoughtfully and in their unique context without dismissing others' perspectives.

Open Conversations and Understanding 51:22​

"It's so important to try to be as clear as we can about the facts without being contentious."

• The conversation underscores the significance of maintaining clarity and openness in discussions about potentially divisive subjects. A collaborative dialogue can pave the way for greater understanding rather than division.

Accessing Additional Resources 51:45​

"My YouTube channel has...seven videos on this topic."

• The speaker shares resources available on their website and YouTube channel, where in-depth materials pertaining to their dissertation can be found. The recent growth in viewers indicates a high interest in these subjects, reflecting a broader hunger for meaningful discussions.

The Hungry Audience for New Perspectives 52:14​

"People are really hungry for this; something's going on that makes people realize there's something here."

• The speaker notes a substantial viewership surge, reflecting an eagerness among audiences to explore new topics related to sacred traditions. The engagement ranges from passionate endorsement to critical feedback, highlighting the polarized nature of the discourse.

The Need for Reformed Understanding 54:12​

"There’s a sense that people have that we have not properly reformed in this area back to the original design that the Holy Spirit wanted to preserve for us in scripture."

• The conversation touches upon the perceived gaps in understanding and reform within spiritual communities. The speaker believes that there is a collective need to revisit original texts and intentions to align contemporary practices with foundational principles.

 

[Lori Jane]

Reminds me of this book I read in 2020 - all about how we arrived at various practices we see in churches today. Very interesting read - I highly reccomend it.

Pagan Christianity?: Exploring the Roots of Our Church Practices​

Have you ever wondered why we Christians do what we do for church every Sunday morning? Why do we “dress up” for church? Why does the pastor preach a sermon each week? Why do we have pews, steeples, and choirs? This ground-breaking book, now in affordable softcover, makes an unsettling proposal: most of what Christians do in present-day churches is rooted, not in the New Testament, but in pagan culture and rituals developed long after the death of the apostles. Coauthors Frank Viola and George Barna support their thesis with compelling historical evidence and extensive footnotes that document the origins of modern Christian church practices. In the process, the authors uncover the problems that emerge when the church functions more like a business organization than the living organism it was created to be. As you reconsider Christ's revolutionary plan for his church—to be the head of a fully functioning body in which all believers play an active role—you'll be challenged to decide whether you can ever do church the same way again.

Pagan Christianity: Preface to the New Edition - Frank Viola | Beyond Evangelical

Yesterday, George Barna and I did our first interview together since Pagan Christianity released four years ago. Recently, Tyndale House released the paperback (softcover) edition of Pagan Christianity. I love that the softcover edition is the same size as the constructive follow-up books...

www.frankviola.org

 

[Shelley]

"Churches function as businesses" Even people with small ministries are like this. Watch Tower adopted corporate culture into a cult culture.

 

[Petunia]

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/66343e9028842f2f20144bb8/t/6645601faeb51469323f6dbd/1715822623647/proskuneo.pdf

Summary: Of all the Greek words that are occasionally translated as “worship,” proskynesis (4352) is the one most likely to be so translated.

This analysis, which has examined the 204 times the word is found in the Septuagint and its 61 occurrences in the NT, has found that the word retains its core sense of prostration wherever it is found.

The only time when proskynesis is used in the context of a Christian assembly is in 1 Cor 14:25
(an unbeliever falls on his face and prostrates to God)

proskynesis is NOT: singing, praying, attending religious services, or the conducting of liturgy.

proskynesis means prostration - this was done before humans, before God and false gods. It means the physical movement of bowing down, like this:




The NT does NOT describe Christian meetings as “worship.”
The English term ‘worship’ usually implies a feeling of reverence.

John 4:20‒24 is discussing an individual’s obligation to perform proskynesis before God in a temple. But in the NT, Christians do not have temple buildings or holy places.

Proskynesis demands visible majesty before which the worshipper bows. The Son of God was visible to all on earth (the Gospels), and the exalted Lord will again be visible to His own when faith gives way to sight.

 

[Petunia]

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...56090cf01d844c8b033a4/1715822736445/shift.pdf

Summary: in the first three centuries. Christians oppose temples, along with the worship, altars, sacrifices, and images that commonly accompany them. Since God now dwells in the human heart, Christians honor Him by living righteous and holy lives.

Shift #1: The Lord’s Supper is a Sacrifice
Justin Martyr (ca. AD 160) identifies the eucharist as a “sacrifice” that Christians offer to God. This connection is odd, because in the NT, the Lord’s Supper represents Jesus’s sacrifice for us, not our sacrifice for God.

Shift #2: Ministers Become Priests
If the Lord’s Supper is a sacrifice that is offered, then the person who offers that sacrifice must be a priest.

Shift #3: Christians Build Holy Temples
The literal application of OT temple terminology is not complete until a building becomes “a temple.”

Up until about 250 A.D., Christians primarily met in homes. In the late third century, in the places where they actually built meeting houses, these buildings were called “places of instruction,” “houses of prayer,” and “houses of assembly” where they would “perform their customs.”

Eusebius (ca. AD 320): Christians are described as conducting “worship” in church (a building, instead of the assembly of Christians in a community). He also refers to a church building as a “temple” many times in reference to the Constantinian church buildings, often comparing the new churches to the glory of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.

The Cause of the Shift

After being persecuted, slaughtered, and ridiculed for three centuries Christians found reason to claim their own sacrifices, altars, priests, and temples, they could gain long-sought social approval.

The tendency among early church fathers to engage in typological and allegorical exegesis in their desire to connect the two Testaments.

Finally, the shift may have been motivated by church leaders who sought to elevate their position in the church.

 

[Kaironaut]

I’ve recently watched more videos from Tom Wadsworth. Church practice has almost completely reverted to a syncretism of the Old Convenant and Old Pagan practices. A sad state of affairs that cuts off intimacy between the brethren.

 

[Outcast]

For people today who are drawn to a church, in my experience, it is never because they believe that it teaches "the truth" in that the church preaches the same message as "grandpa's old church" did. Their comments about their chosen church nearly always is about the nursery, children's church entertainment, or having a nice social environment. Some even are drawn by the music program being "better."

It was "church" that corrupted Christianity. Those who discover the distractions from truth that "a church" offers have little recourse other than finding others who see the problems and form their own group with whom to worship Yahweh and Yeshua in truth and in spirit.

There are very few that find a group of believers with whom they can have fellowship.

It's like we are so ingrained into believing we must have a seminary-educated preacher in order to have "church." (Seminary tends to make a person into the same kind of student that also corrupts the church." It is difficult to find a person who Yahweh has educated, and very few who search for one. After all, if we did find one, we would lose our social club at "church."

 

[Gary Burnett]

For people today who are drawn to a church, in my experience, it is never because they believe that it teaches "the truth" in that the church preaches the same message as "grandpa's old church" did. Their comments about their chosen church nearly always is about the nursery, children's church entertainment, or having a nice social environment. Some even are drawn by the music program being "better."

It was "church" that corrupted Christianity. Those who discover the distractions from truth that "a church" offers have little recourse other than finding others who see the problems and form their own group with whom to worship Yahweh and Yeshua in truth and in spirit.

There are very few that find a group of believers with whom they can have fellowship.

It's like we are so ingrained into believing we must have a seminary-educated preacher in order to have "church." (Seminary tends to make a person into the same kind of student that also corrupts the church." It is difficult to find a person who Yahweh has educated, and very few who search for one. After all, if we did find one, we would lose our social club at "church."

Your comments reminded me of these words of our Lord:
Mat_7:14 For narrow is the gate, and constricted is the way that leads away into life, and few are the ones finding it.
Luk_13:24 Labor to enter in through the narrow gate, for I say to you that many will seek to enter in and will not have strength. LITV.

Finding other people who share the desire to honestly relate to God our Father, through and in Jesus his son, is a lot of hard work. But the joy of finding you folks to share this with is well worth the effort required.

 

[LeeB]

Jude 1:4 2 Peter 2:1,2,3 Galatians 2:4 1 John 4:1 2 Timothy 3:5 Titus 1:16 1 Timothy 4:1,2 Matthew 7:15 Colossians 2:8 Acts 20:29,30

 

[Gary Burnett]

 

[Gary Burnett]

There is more honest insight being revealed here than many researchers have been willing to concede.

 

[LeeB]

In the comments about ministry that there was no one man show in the early church, that no one was thought of as being any better than the other. This was a departure from the levitical priesthood model. It was an orderly group participation. Elders were present to keep order in accordance with the instructions Paul gave. The teacher was the Spirit of GOD through the mediator Christ by revelation. The truth of doctrine was extremely important. After the deaths of all the Apostles human ministry was totally eliminated. False Christians entered and led people astray preaching lies. This is why we see so much division and differences in doctrine. This was the beginning of the falling away that would reach its zenith with the antichrist. Any church the violates some or all of the of the true spirit led characteristics is false.

 

[LeeB]

In the comments about ministry that there was no one man show in the early church, that no one was thought of as being any better than the other. This was a departure from the levitical priesthood model. It was an orderly group participation. Elders were present to keep order in accordance with the instructions Paul gave. The teacher was the Spirit of GOD through the mediator Christ by revelation. The truth of doctrine was extremely important. After the deaths of all the Apostles human ministry was totally eliminated. False Christians entered and led people astray preaching lies. This is why we see so much division and differences in doctrine. This was the beginning of the falling away that would reach its zenith with the antichrist. Any church the violates some or all of the of the true spirit led characteristics is false.

Explain why you are angry and back it up with scripture.

 

[Outcast]

"The Church" has been corrupted since the days of the Apostles ended. Man announced their status as the new truth bringers and even prohibited anyone outside of their group from viewing the scriptures. It was close-hold so the people who came to see them got their information from man and not from God. The corruption extends to today.
Organized churches - except those who instead become small groups to do actual investigations into scripture with no prohibited topics - who create their Statement of Faith and require that everyone serving in the church state that they believe all the statements made by that church in order to "qualify" to serve God's purpose.

The original meetings were attended by those who wanted to learn from those selected by Christ Jesus to serve and have truth. The letters written to the ecclesia of those group were from those who served God in truth. There is no statement from God that He will continue to provide those who receive the authority of the initial few who were chosen.

Man did that. And "the church" became corrupted. What we see now, established churches who vary in doctrines (declaring their truth) cannot be from God, because their statements disagree. No lie is from Yahweh or His Son.

How does this get corrected? It is more simple that we might think but very difficult. The only difficult part is getting man to humble himself and learn from God. That is the barrier to truth.

None of my degrees - while accepted by Man - meant that I had truth from God. That came much later when I found my errors. I believe the exposure to my errors were given me by the calling of God. Now my diplomas are just records of my attendance of man's teaching. One bright spot - I learned to do Hermaneutics for exegesis. I learned how to recognize eisegesis. And I am still on that work.

I also recognize now the difference between "being taught by man" and the conviction that came from God. God does not let me refuse the things He taught me. Those are my etched-in-granite beliefs.

I have watched people change churches (church shopping) and their motivations to select a church was never because of their "truth." It has always been some external program for children, the charisma of their preacher, or because that is where their friends attend.

I would hope that a person with PhD's would know truth from God, and not from a man's school. But then, Yahweh doesn't issue PhD's. He issue conviction that causes us to have the strength to disassociate from those who teach error and attempt to find others with those convictions or the desire to know truth outside of organized denominations.

It has been a long and painful road - but it gives peace once we understand why those convictions were given. The truth from God gives us courage and peace because it comes with strength. If one is given this blessing, it will take time to adjust to the disassociation with those who will reject you because of your refusal to follow their "statement of Faith."

 

[LeeB]

Outcast describes his own personal experience in coming out of this world’s organized religion and into the true new and living way. This experience is similar to my own and that of all the saints. This experience is Taylor made by GOD for each person HE calls and chooses. This creates a spiritual bond and indelible mark on the foreheads of all the saints so that there is no questioning anymore on the truths GOD teaches you through Christ. Outcast is correct that all of organized religion is false because of what Jude stated in his letter. Jude 1:4 Jude is not alone in this as the ancient prophets, Jesus and the Apostles all warned about a deception that would come, well it has been around for a long time and is todays professing Christianity. This is what GOD calls people out of but not many answer HIS call therefore few are chosen. Unless a person has this experience they will remain in the world clinging to worthlessness .

 

[Gary Burnett]

Explain why you are angry and back it up with scripture.

My humblest apologies brothers! That reaction emoji was a mistake with my fingertip that I thought I had deleted.
Your subsequent comments are confirming my own feelings about this subject. I spent 45 years being misled, and it’s taken another 10 years trying to find the right path. Knowing so many of you have honestly considered the evidence too is encouraging, and I keep praying that God’s spirit keeps leading us together.

 

[LeeB]

Gary, I am very glad to see your comment. Outcast and I have been learning together now for over a year and would welcome your input and insights regarding spiritual understanding.

 

[Outcast]

Gary, I am very glad to see your comment. Outcast and I have been learning together now for over a year and would welcome your input and insights regarding spiritual understanding.

Yes, we would. Good to see you here, brother.

 

[LeeB]

Gary. If you would feel comfortable doing so would you tell your story about your spiritual journey ?

 

[LeeB]

I’ve recently watched more videos from Tom Wadsworth. Church practice has almost completely reverted to a syncretism of the Old Convenant and Old Pagan practices. A sad state of affairs that cuts off intimacy between the brethren.

The current system of a one man show basically says to everyone else; I have no need of you. This system does seem to work well because the people do not want to make the time on their own with GOD and Christ to be taught the truth of things. The pastor becomes yet another mediator when scripture says that Jesus is the only mediator. It seems that if these false shepherds were eliminated people could have the relationship with Jesus and his FATHER the way scripture states.