GOD does not dwell in temples made by human beings but in the human beings themselves. The saints are GODS building. These saints are not standing on every street corner but are extremely few in number, remember few are chosen. How many people actually have abandoned the worship practices described in this video to worship GOD in spirit and in truth ? Come out from among them and be you separate , touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you.
Video Summary How Christians Gathered in the 1st Century, and Why We Should Care
- Thread starter Lori Jane
- Start date
I came across this paper some time ago. And noticing how you brothers & sisters have commented, I would like to submit it now for you to consider whether it helps in our understanding of what our gathering together should be capable of achieving.
Peace and harmony in the Lord Jesus’ work.
Peace and harmony in the Lord Jesus’ work.
When people say "worship service," who services whom? If the Spirit of God dwells in me, need I go elsewhere to be with Him? If I seek truth, why do we go to man to obtain it? Man doesn't know truth until it is given to him - and it will not be an organization's opinion or creed.
It will be something that was told to man thousands of years ago and has not changed.
The difficult part is that organized religions have either changed the words from the original or they changed the definitions of the original to support their doctrines and creeds. With all this man-made corruption, it is all the more necessary to go with God to find truth.
This edited paper brother Gary presents has a statement that I have difficulty with. It is:
A Christian (if he is just that and nothing else) is a man who belongs to Jesus Christ - one who accepts
Him as Lord, Savior, and as the Son of the living God. And, of course, that means as wholly and
exclusively committed to Christ for everything. From Him alone he has his life, in Him alone he rests his
hope. From Him alone he takes orders; from Him alone he receives light, instruction, truth, guidance. He
has no other spiritual authority - no other master, rabbi, teacher. The Lord Jesus is the one only source of
light and truth to him; and Christ and Christ's word is his only standard and criterion.
Ever notice how Yeshua is said to replace Yahweh such that He is not even mentioned is this statement?
Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
I have no evidence that when Yahweh gave authority to His Son over "heaven and earth" that He lost His authority. Is Yahweh not still the one true God? This paper seems to imply that.
In John 17, didn't Yeshua say "Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one?"
I suppose it is difficult to parse our understanding, but I believe that Yeshua still obeys His Fathers commands. I think Paul was correct, and it is till true when he said:
Eph 4:4–6 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Perhaps that idea that the underlined statement above is what causes people to accept the doctrine of the Binity if not the Trinity.
There is another thought I have though: the plan of having a new covenant which allows us to become children of God was initiated by Yahweh - making Him the savior. Yeshua was the obedient son of God who shed blood to enact the covenant. He is called "savior," but He alone is not the Savior. It started with Yahweh.
Any thoughts for me?
It will be something that was told to man thousands of years ago and has not changed.
The difficult part is that organized religions have either changed the words from the original or they changed the definitions of the original to support their doctrines and creeds. With all this man-made corruption, it is all the more necessary to go with God to find truth.
This edited paper brother Gary presents has a statement that I have difficulty with. It is:
A Christian (if he is just that and nothing else) is a man who belongs to Jesus Christ - one who accepts
Him as Lord, Savior, and as the Son of the living God. And, of course, that means as wholly and
exclusively committed to Christ for everything. From Him alone he has his life, in Him alone he rests his
hope. From Him alone he takes orders; from Him alone he receives light, instruction, truth, guidance. He
has no other spiritual authority - no other master, rabbi, teacher. The Lord Jesus is the one only source of
light and truth to him; and Christ and Christ's word is his only standard and criterion.
Ever notice how Yeshua is said to replace Yahweh such that He is not even mentioned is this statement?
Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
I have no evidence that when Yahweh gave authority to His Son over "heaven and earth" that He lost His authority. Is Yahweh not still the one true God? This paper seems to imply that.
In John 17, didn't Yeshua say "Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one?"
I suppose it is difficult to parse our understanding, but I believe that Yeshua still obeys His Fathers commands. I think Paul was correct, and it is till true when he said:
Eph 4:4–6 There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Perhaps that idea that the underlined statement above is what causes people to accept the doctrine of the Binity if not the Trinity.
There is another thought I have though: the plan of having a new covenant which allows us to become children of God was initiated by Yahweh - making Him the savior. Yeshua was the obedient son of God who shed blood to enact the covenant. He is called "savior," but He alone is not the Savior. It started with Yahweh.
Any thoughts for me?
As mediator between YAHWEH and man Christ must have access to the power of YAHWEH. This power is not Yeshuas , it is only made available to him to continue with the work he and his FATHER are doing. In the millennium when the saints are glorified spirit beings and rule as kings and priests they too will have access to YAHWEHS power in order to perform in these roles. The omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence will always remain with YAHWEH only. In these things HE will not share with any other. Isaiah 42:8 Isaiah 48:11 Jeremiah 10:6,7
Isaiah 45:21,22 Isaiah 43:10 There are people who make Christ GOD and those who make him a man even now. These are two extremes of ignorance coming from unconverted carnal minds. I have on this forum an article called GODS TELEPHONE. Do a search, it is a modern day parable, or I will bring it up for you.
"Mt 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
I have no evidence that when Yahweh gave authority to His Son over "heaven and earth" that He lost His authority. Is Yahweh not still the one true God? This paper seems to imply that."
Thank you Outcast for your considering this paper, and I accept as valid your critique.
I was hoping you could clarify the above extract from your comment. Is the implication: "Is Yahweh not still the one true God?" or "that when Yahweh gave authority to His Son over "heaven and earth" that He (meaning Yahweh) lost His (Yahweh's) authority."
In trying to understand your thoughts, I rather favor the second implication and can readily agree.
Robert Boll was a preacher in the Church of Christ denomination when the second Great Awakening was gathering steam in Kentucky and Tennessee, USA, in the early 1900's. While there are writers in this period that seem to understand the separate identities of the Father and the Son, the over-arching Trinity persuasion always seems to sneak in. My interest was in Robert Boll's observation of who should be our teacher, Lord and leader in contrast to institutional teaching, lording, and leading.
I have no evidence that when Yahweh gave authority to His Son over "heaven and earth" that He lost His authority. Is Yahweh not still the one true God? This paper seems to imply that."
Thank you Outcast for your considering this paper, and I accept as valid your critique.
I was hoping you could clarify the above extract from your comment. Is the implication: "Is Yahweh not still the one true God?" or "that when Yahweh gave authority to His Son over "heaven and earth" that He (meaning Yahweh) lost His (Yahweh's) authority."
In trying to understand your thoughts, I rather favor the second implication and can readily agree.
Robert Boll was a preacher in the Church of Christ denomination when the second Great Awakening was gathering steam in Kentucky and Tennessee, USA, in the early 1900's. While there are writers in this period that seem to understand the separate identities of the Father and the Son, the over-arching Trinity persuasion always seems to sneak in. My interest was in Robert Boll's observation of who should be our teacher, Lord and leader in contrast to institutional teaching, lording, and leading.
Thanks for responding Gary. This response might seem too direct and even argumentative, but that is not my intent. I am a stickler on some issues, but I want to answer your question without writing a thesis. If it offensive to you, I apologize now.
I'll try to keep this short, so the first thing that has been something I take issue with our modern bibles is that Yahweh's name has been removed from Scripture, both old and new testaments. His name has been replaced with Lord. Some bible attempt to clarify just whom they refer to by capitalizing all the letters if they mean Yahweh and just the first letter if they refer to Yeshua. Some don't show the distinction.
Since we have come to the conclusion that our Father is eternal and does not change, the following verses should have prevented the idolatry contained in the doctrine of the trinity. But, a majority vote at a meeting initiated by a pagan emperor made the trinity official. I have used the latest manuscripts to put Yahweh's name back into the passages that have removed it. And since our bibles leave God's name out, I am showing those verses with His name put back in.
Dt 32:6 Do you thus repay Yahweh, you foolish and senseless people? Is not he your father, who created you, who made you and established you?
Dt 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.
Is 42:5–7. Thus says Yahweh God, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it: “I am Yahweh; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations, to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness. (See John 1)
2 Sa 22:32 “For who is God, but Yahweh? And who is a rock, except our God?
2 Ki 19:14–15 And Hezekiah prayed before Yahweh and said: “Yahweh, the God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.
Neh 9:6 “You are Yahweh, you alone. You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all that is on it, the seas and all that is in them; and you preserve all of them; and the host of heaven worships you.
PS 83:18 that they may know that you alone, whose name is the Yahweh, are the Most High over all the earth
Ps 86:8–10 There is none like you among the gods, O Lord, nor are there any works like yours. All the nations you have made shall come and worship before you, O Lord, and shall glorify your name. For you are great and do wondrous things; you alone are God.
Is 37:16 “O LORD of hosts Yahweh, God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; you have made heaven and earth.
Is 37:20 So now, our God Yahweh, save us from his hand, that all the kingdoms of the earth may know that you alone are the LORD.”
Is 42:8. I am Yahweh; that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to carved idols.
Is 44:8. Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.”
Is 49:8-9 Thus says Yahweh: “In a time of favor I have answered you; in a day of salvation I have helped you; I will keep you and give you as a covenant to the people, to establish the land, to apportion the desolate heritages, saying to the prisoners, ‘Come out,’ to those who are in darkness, ‘Appear.’ They shall feed along the ways; on all bare heights shall be their pasture;
Yet, the paper you present states:
A Christian (if he is just that and nothing else) is a man who belongs to Jesus Christ - one who accepts Him as Lord, Savior, and as the Son of the living God. And, of course, that means as wholly and exclusively committed to Christ for everything. From Him alone he has his life, in Him alone he rests his hope. From Him alone he takes orders; from Him alone he receives light, instruction, truth, guidance. He has no other spiritual authority - no other master, rabbi, teacher.
The word of Christ's inspired messengers, the apostles, is to be expressly included in this statement as being Christ's; but all outside and human authority, and all merely human standards are expressly excluded. Now if one who confesses Jesus as Lord does at the same time acknowledge other lordship and authority in spiritual matters, he ceases to be simply a Christian.
Is it possible to see how this quoted extract from your post conflicts with these passages I included? Yeshua is NOT alone, nor is His power and authority derived from Himself. He will, at some point, return this power and authority to the One who gave it to Him.
1 Co 15:20–28 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death. For “God has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.
As a point of note - when Yeshua told his followers how to pray, He did not tell them to pray to Himself but in His name to His Father. That should remove the deep meaning of this paper that everything we do, think, and say should be directed to Yeshua "alone." I further think that it is a bad thing to take this statement "Now if one who confesses Jesus as Lord does at the same time acknowledge other lordship and authority in spiritual matters, he ceases to be simply a Christian" literally.
' I further think that it is a bad thing to take this statement "Now if one who confesses Jesus as Lord does at the same time acknowledge other lordship and authority in spiritual matters, he ceases to be simply a Christian" literally.'
In calling attention to this statement are you understanding Robert Boll as including the Father in heaven's Lordship?
In calling attention to this statement are you understanding Robert Boll as including the Father in heaven's Lordship?
I apologise if I have given the impression that I have agreed with him on this point. Written text sounds better in one's own head, but can be understood so differently in someone else's reading of it! So, in reading my comment again, I can see where I have rendered a misunderstanding.
Yahweh's authority is, without question, supreme to me. Always has been. Always will be. Yahweh has given authority to Jesus to be the means by whom we become reconciled to our Father from our self-preserving, self-seeking tendencies and motivations (our sins, if I may say so). No grouping, formation or institution of teachers, preachers, pastors or writers can ever over-ride our first obligation to Yahweh to give Yahweh our obedience and reverence. This means we are recognizing our privilege to be the temple in which God dwells amongst earthly creation, individually, and as a corporate, gathered together group (the body of Christ).
Joh 14:6 Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except through me.
Joh 17:21 I pray that all of these people continue to have unity in the way that you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they may be united with us so that the world will believe that you have sent me. (GOD'S WORD translation)
Does the world see the evidence today that God, the Father has sent Jesus, the Son, to unify people around the world "in the way that you, Father, are in me and I am in you"?
You, my brothers, have already referred to the sad history of early Christianity, how men after the time of our Lord Jesus' apostles took it upon themselves to impose teachings and doctrine upon believers that led them astray. Instead of being the temple, they built temples and imposed an expensive burden on the congregants for their upkeep. They adopted the Roman civil and military model of governance that then over-rode our Lord Jesus' instructions for loving consideration for one another.
It has been said before. Unity is not uniformity nor conformity at all costs.
Yes, truth does matter, but as I see it, what matters more is building one another up in the faith in Jesus as the Father's means of reconciling a world of selfish, error prone people back to an individual dependence upon a personal relationship with God honestly felt.
And you, my brothers, are also working to accompolish this.
Yahweh's authority is, without question, supreme to me. Always has been. Always will be. Yahweh has given authority to Jesus to be the means by whom we become reconciled to our Father from our self-preserving, self-seeking tendencies and motivations (our sins, if I may say so). No grouping, formation or institution of teachers, preachers, pastors or writers can ever over-ride our first obligation to Yahweh to give Yahweh our obedience and reverence. This means we are recognizing our privilege to be the temple in which God dwells amongst earthly creation, individually, and as a corporate, gathered together group (the body of Christ).
Joh 14:6 Jesus answered him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one goes to the Father except through me.
Joh 17:21 I pray that all of these people continue to have unity in the way that you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they may be united with us so that the world will believe that you have sent me. (GOD'S WORD translation)
Does the world see the evidence today that God, the Father has sent Jesus, the Son, to unify people around the world "in the way that you, Father, are in me and I am in you"?
You, my brothers, have already referred to the sad history of early Christianity, how men after the time of our Lord Jesus' apostles took it upon themselves to impose teachings and doctrine upon believers that led them astray. Instead of being the temple, they built temples and imposed an expensive burden on the congregants for their upkeep. They adopted the Roman civil and military model of governance that then over-rode our Lord Jesus' instructions for loving consideration for one another.
It has been said before. Unity is not uniformity nor conformity at all costs.
Yes, truth does matter, but as I see it, what matters more is building one another up in the faith in Jesus as the Father's means of reconciling a world of selfish, error prone people back to an individual dependence upon a personal relationship with God honestly felt.
And you, my brothers, are also working to accompolish this.
The trinity idea has been around for over 1,700 years and became popularized and further developed by the Catholic Church. When Martin Luther nailed his 95 theses to the door of Wittenberg Castle church the trinity was not on his list. Protestantism had embraced the trinity and most of the many divisions that followed did the same. There are many that believe the Catholic Church is the outgrowth of the Pentecost church but in reality it was the high jacking of Christianity by pagans. The true church was scattered to the four winds and from that time falling into obscurity and extremely few in number. The true church exists this way today. At first glance one might think that the devil has won but this current condition of the true church was predicted by Jesus , the prophets and Apostles. It is so easy to identify a church of Satan by what they say and do and using the combined gifts of discernment and prophecy . False churches usually have captivating preachers , enjoyable entertainment, sing beautiful hymns and know a lot of buzz words and phrases from scripture but to truly understand YAHWEH, Christ or the gospel has been hidden from them by YAHWEH who has cast a veil over them all and they will remain in ignorance until Jesus returns and in that day they will all say; Lord, Lord .
Thank you, brother, for clearing that up for me.
I see so many today who have all but forgotten the Father and His mercy and grace that have enabled us to become His sons. When I first came to see the errors that I even promoted when I was in ministry, I am ashamed of wasting so much time on the wrong side of truth.
Even now, our Father is hardly ever mentioned is organized religion and all focus is on the Son of God. Whether it be Sunday School pamphlets, sermons, or in church songs -it's all about Yeshua alone. Now, whether in the creation story or in those times that the churches claim to be "Christophanies" in the Old Testament; Yeshua gets the credit for His presence since the world being formless and dark. I think Satan has done a bang-up job of erasing Yahweh from our attention. I tend to be spring-loaded to call attention to those occasions.
Yeshua certainly deserves my love and attention, but even more so Yahweh His Father. I am still awed by the thought that I am a child of Yahweh, a brother to Yeshua, and His friend. I am Simply Christian - one who grows as a follower of The Way.
I am happy to have you and others here to be part of my online community. Now, is y'all would move to the Florida panhandle, we could talk about "stuff."
Yes, their gospel is more about the messenger than the message.