General When MLK gave up his guns

benadam1974

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After his house was firebombed MLK applied for a concealed carry permit. This happened in Montgomery, AL., during protests for the infamous Bus Boycott of 1955-56. And just to remind some in our audience, during the segregation days of the South a black woman named Rosa Parks sat in the white section of a bus (at that time was against the laws of Alabama State).

When Miss Parks refused to move she was promptly arrested and jailed for almost a week! Decades later Miss Parks said in an interview: All I was doing was trying to get home from work.

The TV broadcasts of the boycott brought Miss Parks, MLK and others national headlines. As a result journalists and other civil rights groups met with MLK at his house. These included members of pacifist black groups who had joined the protests.

They noticed the many guns lying around MLKs house and, as the story goes, some members stayed up all night debating with MLK, trying to convince him that armed self-defense would damage rather than help their mutual cause.

According to the Guardian “it was not long before King had come around to the position advocated” by those groups. And from that time on MLK adopted a policy of nonviolence not just when it came to protests but as a "way of life." He even maintained his resolve under conditions that would make others falter.

For example, years later, when King was addressing a convention, a member of the American Nazi Party jumped onto the stage and hit him in the face. The article says that “King responded with a level of courage that made a lifelong impression on many of those in the audience." One of them was the noted educator and activist Septima Clark [called the "Grandmother" of the Civil Rights Movement]. According to Miss Clark King dropped his hands like a newborn baby and spoke calmly to his white supremacist attacker. King made no effort to protect himself even as he was knocked backwards by further blows, and later even insisted that he would not press charges.”
 
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Bvenski

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Yes Sir, I know all about MLK Jr. & Rosa Parks. They choose non-violence. Good for them. Please notice that I said they "choose".

They had a choice, yes Sir.

👉If👈 possible, so far 👉as it depends on you👈, live peaceably with all. Romans 12:18

That if, "ei", is there in the Greek. It may not be possible to live peaceably with all and this is on a case by case basis.

I'm thinking that you believe there is never, ever, eva a situation where lethal self-defense could possibly be used to defend others from evil.

I bet the people of Europe and others are sure glad that you were not in charge when the Nazis were slaughtering millions, had you been alive during WWII.

Thinking that the roles of Romans 13:1-4 can not be held by Christians is being judgmental. Its as if you believe that only Jews, Gentiles & Barbarians can deal with evildoers, which is hypocritical.

Christians should avoid bloodshed as much as possible.

I repeat, Christians should avoid bloodshed as much as possible.

And, Christians should never murder.

However, even a mother bear will protect her cubs from wolves, to the death.

But, if a human mother protects her children w/ a revolver, from armed home invaders, well then she's evil, says you.
☝ Rubbish Carlos, absolute rubbish.

And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Matt 24:22.

☝ Well, well, well....look at that. Jesus will be just like a mother bear or just like a mom w/ a revolver, but more accurately, he will be our big brother and protect the elect and other human beings, from being completely wiped out.

The 2nd greatest commandment is: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Mark 12:31
Also: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. Matt 5:44-45

Jesus is the ultimate son of our Father in heaven. And Jesus is going to kill many human beings when he returns. Do you dare accuse Jesus of violating the 2nd greatest commandment in the future? 👇

And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of him (Jesus) who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh. Rev 19:21

👆 Do you dare accuse Jesus of not loving his enemies when he returns, because he is going to kill them?
 
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benadam1974

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Nov 15, 2020
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Yes Sir, I know all about MLK Jr. & Rosa Parks. They choose non-violence. Good for them. Please notice that I said they "choose".

They had a choice, yes Sir.

👉If👈 possible, so far 👉as it depends on you👈, live peaceably with all. Romans 12:18

That if, "ei", is there in the Greek. It may not be possible to live peaceably with all and this is on a case by case basis.

I'm thinking that you believe there is never, ever, eva a situation where lethal self-defense could possibly be used to defend others from evil.

I bet the people of Europe and others are sure glad that you were not in charge when the Nazis were slaughtering millions, had you been alive during WWII.

Thinking that the roles of Romans 13:1-4 can not be held by Christians is being judgmental. Its as if you believe that only Jews, Gentiles & Barbarians can deal with evildoers, which is hypocritical.

Christians should avoid bloodshed as much as possible.

I repeat, Christians should avoid bloodshed as much as possible.

And, Christians should never murder.

However, even a mother bear will protect her cubs from wolves, to the death.

But, if a human mother protects her children w/ a revolver, from armed home invaders, well then she's evil, says you.
☝ Rubbish Carlos, absolute rubbish.

And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short. Matt 24:22.

☝ Well, well, well....look at that. Jesus will be just like a mother bear or just like a mom w/ a revolver, but more accurately, he will be our big brother and protect the elect and other human beings, from being completely wiped out.

The 2nd greatest commandment is: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Mark 12:31
Also: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. Matt 5:44-45

Jesus is the ultimate son of our Father in heaven. And Jesus is going to kill many human beings when he returns. Do you dare accuse Jesus of violating the 2nd greatest commandment in the future? 👇

And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of him (Jesus) who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh. Rev 19:21

👆 Do you dare accuse Jesus of not loving his enemies when he returns, because he is going to kill them?
We all know that at the parousia Jesus will mete out justice via his saints, Luke 19:27.
Thanks for reading.
 

Bvenski

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We all know that at the parousia Jesus will mete out justice via his saints, Luke 19:27.
Thanks for reading.
That's right, Jesus and the saints will love their enemies by killing them, in this extreme example, that is foreknown, I might add. Otherwise, Jesus is a liar. I don't believe Jesus is a liar. Do you believe Jesus is a liar, Carlos?
 
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benadam1974

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That's right, Jesus and the saints will love their enemies by killing them, in this extreme example, that is foreknown, I might add. Otherwise, Jesus is a liar. I don't believe Jesus is a liar. Do you believe Jesus is a liar, Carlos?
No because killing people is the exact opposite of loving people.
 

Bvenski

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Then how do you explain the extreme example that Jesus knows, he forknows, that he and his saints are not going hug his enemies when he returns, they are not going to hold hands and sing kumbaya, but they are going to kill their enemies? If ALL SCENARIOS of killing people is the exact opposite of loving them, then Jesus is going to be violating a commandment when he returns. And not only that, he is going to make the saints violate the same commandment. This cannot be.
 

benadam1974

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Then how do you explain the extreme example that Jesus knows, he forknows, that he and his saints are not going hug his enemies when he returns, they are not going to hold hands and sing kumbaya, but they are going to kill their enemies? If ALL SCENARIOS of killing people is the exact opposite of loving them, then Jesus is going to be violating a commandment when he returns. And not only that, he is going to make the saints violate the same commandment. This cannot be.
We are in the so-called “age of grace,“ described by Jesus in Mat 5:43-48. And we all know this will come to an end with “the days of vengeance,” Luke 21:22.
 

Bvenski

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So what you are suggesting is that Jesus & the saints are allowed to violate the love your enemies commandment when Jesus returns. I'm not buying that.
 

Bvenski

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I don't believe Jesus will violate his commandment to love your enemies, when he returns and kills tons of people, BECAUSE THEY WILL BE ATTACKING HIM FIRST.
 

Bvenski

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How can Jesus violate his own commandments? 🤔
I love you Carlos, brother man. I'm responding to this topic because I believe its important.

If you choose to be a pacifist, go ahead. I'm not judging you.

You better think twice though, about possibly judging the mother as a murderer, who uses a gun to defend her children from armed home invaders.
 
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benadam1974

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I love you Carlos, brother man. I'm responding to this topic because I believe its important.

If you choose to be a pacifist, go ahead. I'm not judging you.

You better think twice though, about possibly judging the mother as a murderer, who uses a gun to defend her children from armed home invaders.
‘I’m not judging you but you better think twice.‘
Got it! 🤔
 

Bvenski

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Correct. I'm not judging you for choosing pacifism. I'm also not judging the mother who defends her children, with a firearm, from home invaders.

Think twice before you judge others that you disagree with.

Simple enough.
 

Bvenski

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I love you Carlos, brother man. I'm responding to this topic because I believe its important.

If you choose to be a pacifist, go ahead. I'm not judging you.

You better think twice though, about possibly judging the mother as a murderer, who uses a gun to defend her children from armed home invaders.
What's so funny? This is a serious topic. At least I believe it is.
 

Bvenski

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Do you believe a mother should do nothing and allow armed home invaders to rape her and her children, and then murder all of them? Do you truly believe that? I'm not judging you, I'm just asking you a question.
 

Bvenski

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Another question I have is do you believe that the police, judges, military and law abiding citizens, who all carry weapons lawfully, are all wicked, godless heathens?

Again, I'm not judging you, I'm just asking you a question.
 
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Bvenski

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I've said it before and I'll say it again. John the baptist, Jesus and Peter all had interactions w/ soldiers and none of them condemned them nor told them to leave their professions. Armies are necessary. They are Carlos. And Jesus will usher in a 1,000 years of peace with, that's right, his armies.

And the armies which were in heaven followed him (Jesus) upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Rev 19:14

Well aint that sumthin.......Peace on earth will be achieved by Jesus's armies, who will kill Jesus's enemies that make war against them.

And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together 👉to make war against him (Jesus) that sat on the horse, and against his (Jesus's) army.👈👀 Rev 19:19

Therefore, the act of Jesus and his armies killing their enemies cannot be violating the commandment to love your enemies.

Otherwise, Jesus and his armies will sin against the commandment to love their enemies.

Killing these armies, these human beings, will be an act of love BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY JESUS IS GOING SIN THE SECOND HE RETURNS TO EARTH BODILY.
 

Bvenski

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Jesus says love your enemies.

Jesus will kill his enemies when he returns bodily at the parousia.

Jesus killing his enemies has to fall within the commandment to love your enemies.

Otherwise, Jesus will be sinning against his own commandment, which ultimately comes from the God.

Where is this explanation faulty? Please explain.
 

Bvenski

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For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. Psalms 37:28

Yahweh loves judgement.

Yahweh will love Jesus killing his enemies at the parousia.

Yahweh will love Jesus killing human beings.

If Jesus killing human beings is not considered a loving act of judgement, then do you believe Yahweh will love this as an act of sin?

Think about it.

Also,

"No because killing people is the exact opposite of loving people." - Carlos

I would say this is true in most instances, but not all.

The biggest exception to this is the parousia.

Another exception would be the reign of the Nazis, who were killing millions. They had to be stopped by armies, by God fearing men, at least by some within the ranks.

You may think WWII was between wicked men vs. wicked men.

Anyways, your belief that loving your enemies means that you can never, ever, eva pick up the sword to defend the innocent is flawed, because that is exactly what Jesus is going to do at the parousia. Otherwise, no flesh will be saved.

Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
 

LeeB

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Jesus said, John 18:36 , David wrote Psalm 149:1-9 , Abraham did what ? Genesis 14:15-17 , David, a man after Gods own heart, 1Samuel 18:7 .

It is the thought and intent of the heart that determines good from evil. Taking a life in evil is murder, in good is killing. Self defense or defense of others is good even it it requires killing. God will kill the souls of the encourageable in the lake of fire because HE loves them and will not permit them to live in such a condition. God said if a man sheds blood by man his blood shall be shed. This means a murderer should be killed.

To kill is not murder, yes both end a life but one for good cause and the other for evil. To be evil and unrepentant is to live a tortured life of spiritual wickedness, both God and Jesus along with the saints will in mercy end their existence because they love them. It is similar to putting any animal out of misery that is injured beyond hope of recovery.
 
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