Those they are resurrected won't die from old age.
They will be judged on what they do in the 1000 years.
Acts 24:15, Luke 23:43, John 5:28,29
General TO WHOM WAS THE GREAT COMMISSION GIVEN
- Thread starter LeeB
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They will be judged on what they do in the 1000 years.
Acts 24:15, Luke 23:43, John 5:28,29
I think it is easy to confuse the prophecy of Yahweh in both Isaiah 65 and Zacharia 7 with the prophecy of the resurrection we are looking for now. Neither of these O.T. books speak of a resurrected "new body." Since, once again, if we see a conflict in scripture, then we must seek for understanding.
Both Isaiah and Zacharia contain the name of Yahweh, not Yeshua. Those prophecies must be referring to a different occasion. The also refer to the old Jerusalem rather than the new one yet to come.
We know that, in the New Heavens and the New Earth, we are not expecting a 100 year lifespan.
1 Co 15:50–55 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
Lk 20:34–38 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.”
How would all of you see this?
Both Isaiah and Zacharia contain the name of Yahweh, not Yeshua. Those prophecies must be referring to a different occasion. The also refer to the old Jerusalem rather than the new one yet to come.
We know that, in the New Heavens and the New Earth, we are not expecting a 100 year lifespan.
1 Co 15:50–55 I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”
Lk 20:34–38 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the bush, where he calls the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob. Now he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to him.”
How would all of you see this?
There are prophecies that concern carnal Israel and concern spiritual Israel, the world and the church. It is the difference between flesh and spirit that identifies who is who. All of scripture was written for the saints, not the world, as the Holy Spirit is required to understand. I have in my journey tried to take on too much, several things at the same time and finding no answers for any of them. I things afar offlearned to take each thing by itself and let Yahweh lead to the next when HE knows I am ready. All truth is like an unbroken chain, each link connects to the other forming the complete chain composed of many links. We learn a link at a time. Consider that Jesus and the Apostles preached from the scriptures in existence then. They brought light to shadows by the power of Yahweh.
Psalm 139:24 The O.T. Contains much about the N.T. Psalm 16:11 Psalm 51:10-11 , 12 I know that the men who wrote the O.T. had the same spirit in them that is in you and me. Read Hebrews 11 all of them saw things afar off but we saw some of them fulfilled. Just because the O.T. did not record certain spiritual things does not mean that they did not know them.
Psalm 139:24 The O.T. Contains much about the N.T. Psalm 16:11 Psalm 51:10-11 , 12 I know that the men who wrote the O.T. had the same spirit in them that is in you and me. Read Hebrews 11 all of them saw things afar off but we saw some of them fulfilled. Just because the O.T. did not record certain spiritual things does not mean that they did not know them.
I thank you for this, brother. I have lately tried to examine too many things at once, and I have mixed my thoughts to the point I've had to redirect myself. Please bear with me as I tend to ramble lately.
I do believe that God's spirit gave the messages that the writers of the O.T. books required, and Hebrews 11 speaks of how the people of Israel were saved by faith - and so are we.
I think the issue, for me at least, is to understand how God's spirit worked differently for the O.T. people of God that it does for us now. The scriptures show the evidence in your references that the writers acknowledged that they had a spirit, and the Psalm 51 refers to renewing a "right spirit" in verse 10 and then, in verse 11, asks that Yahweh not take Ruach HaKodesh from him. Do you think we still have our original spirit in us at the same time that God's spirit is in us? (I think we do, as it is our original spirit that tries to control us - makes our fleshly desires. Without God's spirit, we would not be set free.) Although I know that some believe that our spirit has died.
We have indication of God's spirit in the people of the O.T. in Titus. It speaks of a "renewal" of the Holy Spirit - indicating that it was previously there.
Tt 3:4–7 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
However, we see in the N.T. passages that the Jews were not even aware of "Holy Spirit." Yeshua called it "a helper," The Spirit of Truth," and "The Holy Spirit." If the O.T. saints had the same Spirit that we do now, then the difference must be in how God's spirit works in us.
Yeshua spoke of a coming Spirit - indicating the Spirit was not present at the time.
Jn 7:39 Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified
Jn 14:16–17 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
Jn 16:13–14 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
However, there are those who "spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus" while not having the promised Spirit.
Ac 18:24–25 Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John.
Ac 19:1–6 There he found some disciples. And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.
But first, we see that Jesus gave His disciples God's Spirit which was apparently somewhat different for receiving God's Spirit at Pentecost.
Jn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit."
That event was not the same as the one reported at Pentecost. I think I would see that the function of God's Spirit gift at Pentecost was to enable them to go out and fulfill the mission that Yeshua gave them to do.
Ac 2:2–4 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Peter was at Pentecost, and was given some authority to act as an Apostle of Yeshua.
Ac 10:44–48 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.
We know that the sacrament of Baptism has a purpose, and obedience is certainly one of them. God's spirit is also part of it.
Ac 2:37–38 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Do you agree that after the apostles died, the passing on of these gifts of the holy spirit ended? Compare 1 Cor 13:8
A testament is not in force until the death of the testator. Hebrews 9:17
The people in Hebrews 11 did indeed have the Holy Spirit. See how all these people desired a heavenly country, a city built by God, the new Jerusalem, a better resurrection, unto Abraham was the gospel preached and you and I are of the same faith and will receive the same blessings as Abraham. All the people in Hebrews 11 were of faith and what we have seen they never saw up close but from afar off. Their names are used to teach us and as examples to us of true faith. The entire reason Jesus went to be baptized by John was to confirm the faith of these people. Romans 15:8 This baptism was not for Christ but for them, the people wether circumcised or uncircumcised but was the fulfillment of the sign of circumcision that through Abraham the Christ after the flesh would come, to fulfill all righteousness . This church in the wilderness knew what you and I know, they knew it before Christ and we afterwards but the faith is the same, the spirit of Yahweh was the same. Once that testator died and rose again then ascended to his Gods right hand a fulfillment took place for all who were of the true faith. The people in Hebrews 11 will rise when we rise, a resurrection of all the elect saints. There are not different rules for different groups but one rule for one group. Many of the people in Hebrews 11 actually wrote the prophecies about Christ, David wrote psalms about Christ, Abraham knew the messiah would come from him just as David did. Able had the imputed righteousness of God and the faith that accompanies it. These all died in the same faith as we have and like us have not received the promises so that we all together are glorified, made perfect. Hebrews 11:40 The disciples had the Spirit of Yahweh working with them but was not yet in them. John 14:17 The spirit was not given until Christ was glorified after his ascension. John 7:39 Today you and I are only discovering what all these people knew long ago. The only difference is they looked forward to it and we look backward.
The people in Hebrews 11 did indeed have the Holy Spirit. See how all these people desired a heavenly country, a city built by God, the new Jerusalem, a better resurrection, unto Abraham was the gospel preached and you and I are of the same faith and will receive the same blessings as Abraham. All the people in Hebrews 11 were of faith and what we have seen they never saw up close but from afar off. Their names are used to teach us and as examples to us of true faith. The entire reason Jesus went to be baptized by John was to confirm the faith of these people. Romans 15:8 This baptism was not for Christ but for them, the people wether circumcised or uncircumcised but was the fulfillment of the sign of circumcision that through Abraham the Christ after the flesh would come, to fulfill all righteousness . This church in the wilderness knew what you and I know, they knew it before Christ and we afterwards but the faith is the same, the spirit of Yahweh was the same. Once that testator died and rose again then ascended to his Gods right hand a fulfillment took place for all who were of the true faith. The people in Hebrews 11 will rise when we rise, a resurrection of all the elect saints. There are not different rules for different groups but one rule for one group. Many of the people in Hebrews 11 actually wrote the prophecies about Christ, David wrote psalms about Christ, Abraham knew the messiah would come from him just as David did. Able had the imputed righteousness of God and the faith that accompanies it. These all died in the same faith as we have and like us have not received the promises so that we all together are glorified, made perfect. Hebrews 11:40 The disciples had the Spirit of Yahweh working with them but was not yet in them. John 14:17 The spirit was not given until Christ was glorified after his ascension. John 7:39 Today you and I are only discovering what all these people knew long ago. The only difference is they looked forward to it and we look backward.
Some yet remain; faith, hope, love, discernment, how else could we even be Christians if we did not have these ? I believe that all the ministry has been abolished except the office of prophet and prophetess as this is how all Christians are taught by God through Christ. Consider 1 Corinthians 13:8 is for a future time 1 Corinthians 13:12 In the kingdom we will not need faith, forgiveness, mercy or even the sacrifice of Christ because we will have attained and this why we still need some of the gifts, Galatians 5:22 are all needed . By gifts Iam guessing you refer to 1 Corinthians 12:8-10 of all these miracles and tongues are Are not for now but I believe the others are needed. I have personally witnessed only one healing of a woman with malignant melanoma who was on chemotherapy. She is alive today 16 years later, she is my wife. My advice to everyone is what Paul said, 1 Corinthians 4:5 .
We still retain our human spirit when Gods spirit merged with us, it is the spirits of just men made perfect. Our body is not who we are, our spirit is, the body is the earthen vessel of temporary storage. The Holy Spirit is the same power of Yahweh in all who have it. 1 Peter 1:10-12
The word receive in John 20:22 , according to the Interlinear can mean to lay hold of or to take or accept was is offered. It to me can’t mean they received the Spirit then because the spirit was not given until Jesus was glorified. John 7:39 When I study I try to consider every possibility but compare each possibility to what I already know as truth. John 7:39 is truth so that informs me that John 20:22 cannot mean Jesus gave any type of the Holy Spirit because he still was not yet glorified and would not be glorified until he ascended. Only Yahweh gives HIS spirit Jesus cannot do this. Luke 11:13 , John 14:16 , John 15:26 , John 16:7 , Acts 1:4 Jesus as mediator is the connection from Us to Yahweh .
The word receive in John 20:22 , according to the Interlinear can mean to lay hold of or to take or accept was is offered. It to me can’t mean they received the Spirit then because the spirit was not given until Jesus was glorified. John 7:39 When I study I try to consider every possibility but compare each possibility to what I already know as truth. John 7:39 is truth so that informs me that John 20:22 cannot mean Jesus gave any type of the Holy Spirit because he still was not yet glorified and would not be glorified until he ascended. Only Yahweh gives HIS spirit Jesus cannot do this. Luke 11:13 , John 14:16 , John 15:26 , John 16:7 , Acts 1:4 Jesus as mediator is the connection from Us to Yahweh .
It would seem so, wouldn't it. Yet, I have to wonder about the events within "the church" since the Apostles died.
If I correctly understand the timeline between the Resurrection until the end of the designated Apostles, there became a time when miracles were not reported in Scripture. That of course, would be to declare a fact "not in evidence" since it would be saying no miraculous signs were given because nobody wrote about them.
It is not only LeeB who has seen a miraculous event; I have had testimonies from others as well.
Yeshua was speaking to His disciples when he said:
Mk 11:20–25 As they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away to its roots. And Peter remembered and said to him, “Rabbi, look! The fig tree that you cursed has withered.” And Jesus answered them, “Have faith in God. Truly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be taken up and thrown into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says will come to pass, it will be done for him. Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours. And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”
Mt 17:19–20 Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, “Why could we not cast it out?” He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.”
I do not have an "etched in granite" answer. What I do have are contemplation regarding the absence of signs and wonders. Yeshua said that we must have a certain amount of faith. That faith comes from Yahweh.
Ro 12:2–3 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.
Yeshua asked His Father to ensure the faith of Peter would not fail.
Lk 22:31–32 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have you, that he might sift you like wheat, but I have prayed for you that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned again, strengthen your brothers.”
Perhaps we should look at the following verse from a new perspective. Is the "gift of God" the grace or the faith? In our English language the word "gift" should refer to the last noun listed.
Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
My prayers are for Yahweh to increase my faith. I know that it comes from Him.
1 Ti 1:12–14 I thank him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, appointing me to his service, though formerly I was a blasphemer, persecutor, and insolent opponent. But I received mercy because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, and the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus.
2 Th 1:3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.
Lastly, my point is that miracles have not ceased. I THINK that they are not given to many because we have a real problem with righteousness in this world. I think living "by faith" may be different from what we see around us in our churches. Also, they served as a way to magnify God instead of magnifying the person petitioning for them. The Apostles rejected Magnus the magician when we wanted the ability to perform miracles - he wanted only riches and fame.
Still, we are told that we should seek healing from Yahweh. I hope that soon, God will increase my faith and that I learn how to be one of the righteous people spoken of in this passage.
Jas 5:13–16 Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.
My wife has suffered from cancer and the associated medical treatments for many years now. I have prayed for her often, but still she suffers. We both believe that she is alive today because Yahweh heard our prayers, but she still suffers along the way. He other siblings have already passed away from cancer, but my wife still lives.
I thank God.
Outcast, I am going to ask the brethren here that I fellowship with to pray for your wife and you.
I am really sorry that your wives have suffered with that terrible disease.
As a former Witness, prayer and healing is a hard/difficult subject.
For the last 30 years I have been taught that Jehovah answers prayers, if it is according to his will - 1 John 5:14
Then they say that his will today is the preaching of the good news.
So the prayers that are answered are around that, for example knocking on someone's door that has been praying for answers. Or us making changes in our circumstances so that we can spend more time in the ministry.
Then we were taught that our endurance under trial proves Satan a liar, when we remain faithful no matter what happens. James 1:3-4;5:11. Compare Satan testing Job.
Then on the other hand, Jesus did say Luke 18:8. Will he find the faith.
We were also taught to pray for wisdom to know how to deal with our trials.
To me that has always been doing research before accepting medical treatment and researching alternatives.
And also we were taught 2 Tim 3:16, that the answers to resolving our problems are in the scriptures.
So it could be that I am throttling Jehovah's spirit in my life.
As a former Witness, prayer and healing is a hard/difficult subject.
For the last 30 years I have been taught that Jehovah answers prayers, if it is according to his will - 1 John 5:14
Then they say that his will today is the preaching of the good news.
So the prayers that are answered are around that, for example knocking on someone's door that has been praying for answers. Or us making changes in our circumstances so that we can spend more time in the ministry.
Then we were taught that our endurance under trial proves Satan a liar, when we remain faithful no matter what happens. James 1:3-4;5:11. Compare Satan testing Job.
Then on the other hand, Jesus did say Luke 18:8. Will he find the faith.
We were also taught to pray for wisdom to know how to deal with our trials.
To me that has always been doing research before accepting medical treatment and researching alternatives.
And also we were taught 2 Tim 3:16, that the answers to resolving our problems are in the scriptures.
So it could be that I am throttling Jehovah's spirit in my life.
I nor anyone else can always know and understand why things happen or how they will play out. It is said time and chance happen to us all. Ecclesiastes 9:11 King David fasted and prayed for seven days for the life of his and Bathsheba’s child. 2 Samuel 12:14-24. The child died. What is it that we can learn from this ?
I know that Yahweh has a plan, a will, and a purpose for His creation. Each of our pathways are directed by Him. It would be easy to fall under the umbrella of "simply fate." However, if that were true, I don't think all the scriptures mentioning taking our requests to Yahweh would exist. I cannot know God's mind in how He handles our requests, but I do believe we are to take them to Him.
I'm reminded of the conversation where Abraham was questioning the "two men" who were going to Sodom with plans to destroy it because of their wickedness.
We are not Abraham, but we still know that Yahweh hears us. Do we change His plan? I don't think so. I do think that wherever the plan allows us to be accommodated, He can choose to do so. That is why His answer is sometimes "yes" and sometimes "no." Either way, we can be sure that He hears us. Not all of our requests serve His purpose.
I'm reminded of the conversation where Abraham was questioning the "two men" who were going to Sodom with plans to destroy it because of their wickedness.
We are not Abraham, but we still know that Yahweh hears us. Do we change His plan? I don't think so. I do think that wherever the plan allows us to be accommodated, He can choose to do so. That is why His answer is sometimes "yes" and sometimes "no." Either way, we can be sure that He hears us. Not all of our requests serve His purpose.
Outcast, can you imagine what would happen if even every good and loving request we make would be instantly fulfilled ? Yahwehs people would be deluged with the world wanting us to use our connection to Yahweh for all kinds of things. We would not have a moment of peace.