General NEAR DEATH EXPERIENCES THROUGH THE LENS OF RELIGIOUS INTERPRETATIONS

LeeB · May 26, 2024

Religious Interpretations of Death, Afterlife &
NDEs
David San Filippo Ph.D.
National Louis University

Many beliefs in life after death have concerned a non-physical transition into a serene
spiritual world with encounters with other deceased people and possible religious figures. There
may be a judgment or accounting of one's life with a final disposition of the individual spirit
following the period of judgment or personal assessment.

Near-death experiences and the reports of a consciousness of life after death have been
provided by members of Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Christian, and Mormon religions,
among others. Agnostics and atheists also have reported near-death experiences even with their
predisposed lack of belief in anything greater than personal self and this life. The following are
brief commentaries regarding the beliefs concerning death, afterlife, and near-death experiences
within these religious and a religious frameworks.

Agnostics & Atheists:

Agnostics think that it is impossible to know whether there is a God or life after death.
Atheists believe that there is no God and no life after death and that death is the cessation of the
existence of the individual.
Agnostics & atheists have reported having near-death experiences. These experiences are
similar to the reports of individuals who have professed a spiritual belief prior to their near-death
experience. Agnostics & atheists report that they achieve an altered state of consciousness in
which they have experienced some or all of the traits Raymond Moody and others attribute to a
near-death experience. Most agnostics and atheists interpret their near-death experiences as a
glimpse of life after death. Prior to the near-death experience, they did not believe in life after
death. As a result of the experience, most agnostic and atheist experiencers eventually move
toward a more spiritually guided life with a new found belief in life after death. Maurice
Rawlings reported that he did not know of any agnostic or atheist individual, from his research,
who after experiencing a near-death experience, remained convinced that there was no God, no
life after death, or that there was nothing else beyond the material existence.

Buddhism & Hinduism

Buddhists believe that upon death, there is rebirth to another life. Death is accepted as
inevitable and not feared. The believer's actions, in this life, will determine his or her level of
rebirth. Karma is the force created by the actions of the individual - the effects of actions. Good
karma, which is achieved by compassionate actions in this life, leads to a higher existence in the
next life. Nirvana is reached by achieving an understanding of the nature of reality. This must be
discovered through the experiences of other dimensions of human consciousness.
According to Buddhist cosmology, numerous, hierarchically arranged heavens exist
along with eight hot and cold hells. The individual spirit exists in one of these realms, based
upon the karma created in the previous life, until reborn into another life. This cycle continues
until the enlightenment of nirvana is achieved. To some Buddhist, death is no more than the
dream at the end of time.

In the Hindu religion death comes as a break in the continued events of life and brings
about a change in the form in which the spirit resides. Hindus believe that the afterlife is a
passage of time in a heaven or hell, dependent upon the karma built up in life. The judgment
about one's life is based upon the karma that the individual created in his or her past lives. The
rebirth of the spirit into the next life, through the transmigration of the soul, is determined by the
developed karma and the individual's last thoughts in the present life. An individual's search for
eternal happiness and immortality results in the rebirth of the spirit in different bodies until the
spirit learns that happiness and immortality are not a result of the fulfillment of desires but are
attained when all desires and needs are no longer important. According to some Hindus, the
various religious faiths are "different paths to reach one and the same goal - union with God as
ultimate Reality" (Johnson & McGee, 1991).

There are reports of Chinese Buddhists having near-death experiences. Becker has
suggested that near-death experiences may have been responsible for part of the development of
Pure Land Buddhism in China. A Hindu report of a near-death experience relates that the
experiencer entered into heaven on the back of a cow.

According to Mauro (1992), "East Indians [Hindus] sometimes see heaven as a giant
bureaucracy, and frequently report being sent back because of clerical errors," whereas Japanese
experiencers report seeing symbolic images, such as "long, dark rivers and beautiful flowers" (p.
57).
During the near-death experience, the Buddhist experiencers have reported seeing the
personage of Buddha, and Hindu experiencers report seeing Krishna. The difference in Buddhist
and Hindu reports of near-death experiences is predominately associated with the afterlife setting
and the personages that the experiencer reports encountering.

Buddhist and Hindu near-death experiencers may report different interpretations of the
specifics of their experiences; however, the experiences are consistent with other stages, traits,
constellations, and group types reported by near-death experiencers in other cultures and
religions. Some members of the Buddhist and Hindu religions interpret near-death experiences as
providing afterlife visions that are similar to visions ascribed to some Eastern religious
experiences associated with death and afterlife. Becker (1984) comments "that ancient Japanese
Buddhist meditative and deathbed visions closely parallel modern American near-death and
deathbed visions" (p. 51).
The Tibetan Book of the Dead (1973) describes the Bardo, the three
stages of the transitionary "disembodied state" following death. In the first stage, the departed
have visions of the "Blinding Clear Light of Pure Reality." In the second stage, the departed
encounter a succession of "deities." In the third stage the departed is judged based upon past
deeds by the "Dharma Raja, King and Judge of the Dead." These stages are similar in content to
other reported near-death experiences from other religions and cultures. These similarities
include a movement through levels - such as passing through a tunnel, visions of pure light,
meeting incorporeal beings, powers of astral projections or out-of-body-experience, and a
judgment about one's life.

Islamic

Death, in the Islamic faith, is the cessation of biological life and the resting of the spirit,
in the grave, until the Judgment Day. Some Muslims believe that the "good souls" see visions of
God, and the wicked see the hell that awaits them. From the time of death to the time of
judgment, Muslims believe the spirit remains in a state of "dreamless sleep," with the exception
of possible visions of eternity.
Faith in an afterlife is based upon the belief in the oneness of God and the belief in a day
of resurrection and judgment for all regardless of religious belief. At that time, the spirit will be
judged, based upon its deeds in life, and allowed either to enter into Paradise and be with God,
be thrown into the Fire for a period of purgation, or condemned to everlasting punishment in the
Fire. Most Muslims believe that non-Muslims can reach Paradise only after a period of
purgation.
Muslims have reported having near-death experiences. Muslim near-death experiencers
report seeing and meeting recognizable spirits. This conforms with the Islamic tradition that the
souls of the faithful, in paradise, welcome the "incoming souls" and with other reports of visions
of people awaiting the newly deceased. In Muslim near-death experiences, the Being of Light is
identified as Allah, whereas in other religions the light might be identified as God.

Some Muslims interpret the near-death experience as a possible glimpse into life after
death due to the similarity of the experience with the religious visions of Muhammad and their
expectations of life after death. An Islamic myth describes Muhammad's "Night Journey" as his
experience of passing through the realms of the afterlife where he encounters spirits who have
died, has a vision of heaven and hell, and communes with Allah.

Judaism

The Jewish religion generally emphasizes the current life and not life after death.
Although Judaism recognizes that the life of the spirit does not end at the point of bodily death, it
is the Jew's responsibility to focus on a meaningful life and not speculate on life after death. The
Jewish religious texts state that the actions taken in the present life will reward the righteous and
chastise the wicked. It does not specifically address the concept of an afterlife. Even though the
Jewish religious texts do not directly address immortality, traditional Jews believe that
immortality will bring the resurrection of the body and soul, followed by the judgment of the
worth of their lives by God. The Reformed Jew believes that resurrection involves only the soul.
Jews believe they live and die only once.
Since there is no discussion, in the Jewish religious texts, of afterlife, there is no official
Jewish religious opinion regarding life after death. However, many Jews believe that human
souls will be held accountable before God for what has been accomplished in the current life.
After death, many Jews believe that they will be reunited with family members in heaven. Their
belief in God's caring nature disavows a sadistic punishment in hell. Entrance into heaven is
accomplished by righteous living and repentance. Heaven is considered a place where anxiety
and pain is ended.
There have been a number of reported near-death experiences by members of the Jewish
faith. Barbara Harris, a practicing Jew, reports having had several near-death experiences since
1975. Harris and Bascom's book, Full Circle - The Near-Death Experience and Beyond, is a
narrative of Harris' near-death experiences. Jewish people who have had a near-death experience
relate similar observations and experiences as the experiences of other religious-spiritual
believers. During the near-death experience, the individuals report being in the presence of the
Being of Light and judging their own lives. This experience is similar to the Jewish belief that
what is important in life is the attending to the responsibilities of living a meaningful, productive
life. Many near-death experiencers report being met by family members. These reports are
consistent with the Jewish belief that after death they will be reunited with family members in
heaven.

Christianity

Modern Christians are united in their belief that Jesus is the son of God and that there is
an afterlife, based upon the claims of the Holy Bible and the life and teachings of Jesus Christ
and his disciples. Upon death, Christians believe that they come before God and are judged.
According to Smith (1991), "Following death, human life is fully translated into the supernatural
domain" (p. 355).
Fundamentalists and conservatives interpret the Holy Bible literally and
believe that there is a specific heaven and hell and that only Christians are admitted to heaven.
All others are condemned to hell. Other Christians interpret Biblical scripture more symbolically,
taking into consideration the language and culture of the time when the Bible was written.
Heaven and hell are viewed as a "condition," such as happiness or peace, rather than a specific
place.
Regardless of whether the afterlife beliefs are interpreted conservatively or liberally, the
Christian believes that he or she dies only once and that after death, the spirit is judged, and then
exists in an afterlife for eternity. According to scripture, "It is appointed for men to die once, and
after that comes judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).
Near-death experiences appear to be familiar para-normal occurrences to Christians.
Bechtel, Chen, Pierce, & Walker reported that 98% of the clergy that they surveyed were
familiar with near-death phenomena and that almost half of them have counseled parishioners
who had a near-death experience.
As with other religious interpretations of the near-death
experience, Christians also report encounters with religious beings such as Jesus, Mary, or
angels. Experiencers report similar out-of-body experiences, meeting recognizable spiritual
entities, movement toward a bright light, and a sense of being in the presence of an energy of
"unconditional love" while the experiencer judges his or her life.

Some Christians refute the near-death experience as being a demonic deception. They
believe that the entire near-death experience is a trick of Satan to pull believers from the
teachings of Christianity and lead them into sin. Other Christians interpret the near-death
experience as a glimpse of an after death state that may exist prior to the after life judgment by
God. Near-death experiences and experiences similar to the altered state of the near-death
experiences are recorded in the Christian scriptures. These experiences are not reported as being
evil or sinful. The scripture writers have recorded visions of bright lights, life reviews, the
presence of the unconditional love of God, and visions of heaven and hell from biblical
individuals who have been close to death. In the Apostle Paul's letter to the Corinthians, II
Corinthians 12:1-10, Paul records a "vision" he had. This vision resembles the content of a near-
death experience. It involved Paul being "taken up to heaven for a visit" and "hear[ing] things so
astounding that they are beyond man's power to describe or put in words,
however these verses never say that Paul actually died, it was a vision.
" Near-death experiencers consistently report the difficulty of verbalizing what they experience.
The effect of this experience, on Paul, was a personal confirmation and assurance of his work.

According to Flynn (1986), to many experiencers, "the near-death experience affirms the
uniqueness and centrality and indispensability of Christ, but in a universalistic way that does not
negate or diminish the value of other religious traditions...[It will] break through sectarian and
other barriers and shine a laser beam of Light on the true essence and meaning of Christ for all
people" (p. 80). Ring (1985) supports Flynn's comments, in his conclusions regarding the
universalistically spiritual orientation of experiencers following near-death experiences. He
found that following a near-death experience, the Christian experiencer "gravitated towards a
religious world view that may incorporate and yet transcend the traditional Christian
perspective" (p. 147). This idea would make all religions equal in the sense of Gods identity and his
purpose for humanity.

Conclusion

All near death experiences are a result of the mind set or religious world view of the person experiencing these visions. This indicates that there is no spirituality involved in NDE due to non conformity in all views but rather is a product of each individuals own perception of their God and other characters and practices associated with their God.

LeeB · May 29, 2024

LeeB said:
Religious Interpretations of Death, Afterlife &
NDEs
David San Filippo Ph.D.
National Louis University

Many beliefs in life after death have concerned a non-physical transition into a serene
spiritual world with encounters with other deceased people and possible religious figures. There
may be a judgment or accounting of one's life with a final disposition of the individual spirit
following the period of judgment or personal assessment.

Near-death experiences and the reports of a consciousness of life after death have been
provided by members of Buddhist, Hindu, Islamic, Jewish, Christian, and Mormon religions,
among others. Agnostics and atheists also have reported near-death experiences even with their
predisposed lack of belief in anything greater than personal self and this life. The following are
brief commentaries regarding the beliefs concerning death, afterlife, and near-death experiences
within these religious and a religious frameworks.

Agnostics & Atheists:

Agnostics think that it is impossible to know whether there is a God or life after death.
Atheists believe that there is no God and no life after death and that death is the cessation of the
existence of the individual.
Agnostics & atheists have reported having near-death experiences. These experiences are
similar to the reports of individuals who have professed a spiritual belief prior to their near-death
experience. Agnostics & atheists report that they achieve an altered state of consciousness in
which they have experienced some or all of the traits Raymond Moody and others attribute to a
near-death experience. Most agnostics and atheists interpret their near-death experiences as a
glimpse of life after death. Prior to the near-death experience, they did not believe in life after
death. As a result of the experience, most agnostic and atheist experiencers eventually move
toward a more spiritually guided life with a new found belief in life after death. Maurice
Rawlings reported that he did not know of any agnostic or atheist individual, from his research,
who after experiencing a near-death experience, remained convinced that there was no God, no
life after death, or that there was nothing else beyond the material existence.

Buddhism & Hinduism

Buddhists believe that upon death, there is rebirth to another life. Death is accepted as
inevitable and not feared. The believer's actions, in this life, will determine his or her level of
rebirth. Karma is the force created by the actions of the individual - the effects of actions. Good
karma, which is achieved by compassionate actions in this life, leads to a higher existence in the
next life. Nirvana is reached by achieving an understanding of the nature of reality. This must be
discovered through the experiences of other dimensions of human consciousness.
According to Buddhist cosmology, numerous, hierarchically arranged heavens exist
along with eight hot and cold hells. The individual spirit exists in one of these realms, based
upon the karma created in the previous life, until reborn into another life. This cycle continues
until the enlightenment of nirvana is achieved. To some Buddhist, death is no more than the
dream at the end of time.

In the Hindu religion death comes as a break in the continued events of life and brings
about a change in the form in which the spirit resides. Hindus believe that the afterlife is a
passage of time in a heaven or hell, dependent upon the karma built up in life. The judgment
about one's life is based upon the karma that the individual created in his or her past lives. The
rebirth of the spirit into the next life, through the transmigration of the soul, is determined by the
developed karma and the individual's last thoughts in the present life. An individual's search for
eternal happiness and immortality results in the rebirth of the spirit in different bodies until the
spirit learns that happiness and immortality are not a result of the fulfillment of desires but are
attained when all desires and needs are no longer important. According to some Hindus, the
various religious faiths are "different paths to reach one and the same goal - union with God as
ultimate Reality" (Johnson & McGee, 1991).

There are reports of Chinese Buddhists having near-death experiences. Becker has
suggested that near-death experiences may have been responsible for part of the development of
Pure Land Buddhism in China. A Hindu report of a near-death experience relates that the
experiencer entered into heaven on the back of a cow.

According to Mauro (1992), "East Indians [Hindus] sometimes see heaven as a giant
bureaucracy, and frequently report being sent back because of clerical errors," whereas Japanese
experiencers report seeing symbolic images, such as "long, dark rivers and beautiful flowers" (p.
57).
During the near-death experience, the Buddhist experiencers have reported seeing the
personage of Buddha, and Hindu experiencers report seeing Krishna. The difference in Buddhist
and Hindu reports of near-death experiences is predominately associated with the afterlife setting
and the personages that the experiencer reports encountering.

Buddhist and Hindu near-death experiencers may report different interpretations of the
specifics of their experiences; however, the experiences are consistent with other stages, traits,
constellations, and group types reported by near-death experiencers in other cultures and
religions. Some members of the Buddhist and Hindu religions interpret near-death experiences as
providing afterlife visions that are similar to visions ascribed to some Eastern religious
experiences associated with death and afterlife. Becker (1984) comments "that ancient Japanese
Buddhist meditative and deathbed visions closely parallel modern American near-death and
deathbed visions" (p. 51).
The Tibetan Book of the Dead (1973) describes the Bardo, the three
stages of the transitionary "disembodied state" following death. In the first stage, the departed
have visions of the "Blinding Clear Light of Pure Reality." In the second stage, the departed
encounter a succession of "deities." In the third stage the departed is judged based upon past
deeds by the "Dharma Raja, King and Judge of the Dead." These stages are similar in content to
other reported near-death experiences from other religions and cultures. These similarities
include a movement through levels - such as passing through a tunnel, visions of pure light,
meeting incorporeal beings, powers of astral projections or out-of-body-experience, and a
judgment about one's life.

Islamic

Death, in the Islamic faith, is the cessation of biological life and the resting of the spirit,
in the grave, until the Judgment Day. Some Muslims believe that the "good souls" see visions of
God, and the wicked see the hell that awaits them. From the time of death to the time of
judgment, Muslims believe the spirit remains in a state of "dreamless sleep," with the exception
of possible visions of eternity.
Faith in an afterlife is based upon the belief in the oneness of God and the belief in a day
of resurrection and judgment for all regardless of religious belief. At that time, the spirit will be
judged, based upon its deeds in life, and allowed either to enter into Paradise and be with God,
be thrown into the Fire for a period of purgation, or condemned to everlasting punishment in the
Fire. Most Muslims believe that non-Muslims can reach Paradise only after a period of
purgation.
Muslims have reported having near-death experiences. Muslim near-death experiencers
report seeing and meeting recognizable spirits. This conforms with the Islamic tradition that the
souls of the faithful, in paradise, welcome the "incoming souls" and with other reports of visions
of people awaiting the newly deceased. In Muslim near-death experiences, the Being of Light is
identified as Allah, whereas in other religions the light might be identified as God.

Some Muslims interpret the near-death experience as a possible glimpse into life after
death due to the similarity of the experience with the religious visions of Muhammad and their
expectations of life after death. An Islamic myth describes Muhammad's "Night Journey" as his
experience of passing through the realms of the afterlife where he encounters spirits who have
died, has a vision of heaven and hell, and communes with Allah.

Judaism

The Jewish religion generally emphasizes the current life and not life after death.
Although Judaism recognizes that the life of the spirit does not end at the point of bodily death, it
is the Jew's responsibility to focus on a meaningful life and not speculate on life after death. The
Jewish religious texts state that the actions taken in the present life will reward the righteous and
chastise the wicked. It does not specifically address the concept of an afterlife. Even though the
Jewish religious texts do not directly address immortality, traditional Jews believe that
immortality will bring the resurrection of the body and soul, followed by the judgment of the
worth of their lives by God. The Reformed Jew believes that resurrection involves only the soul.
Jews believe they live and die only once.
Since there is no discussion, in the Jewish religious texts, of afterlife, there is no official
Jewish religious opinion regarding life after death. However, many Jews believe that human
souls will be held accountable before God for what has been accomplished in the current life.
After death, many Jews believe that they will be reunited with family members in heaven. Their
belief in God's caring nature disavows a sadistic punishment in hell. Entrance into heaven is
accomplished by righteous living and repentance. Heaven is considered a place where anxiety
and pain is ended.
There have been a number of reported near-death experiences by members of the Jewish
faith. Barbara Harris, a practicing Jew, reports having had several near-death experiences since
1975. Harris and Bascom's book, Full Circle - The Near-Death Experience and Beyond, is a
narrative of Harris' near-death experiences. Jewish people who have had a near-death experience
relate similar observations and experiences as the experiences of other religious-spiritual
believers. During the near-death experience, the individuals report being in the presence of the
Being of Light and judging their own lives. This experience is similar to the Jewish belief that
what is important in life is the attending to the responsibilities of living a meaningful, productive
life. Many near-death experiencers report being met by family members. These reports are
consistent with the Jewish belief that after death they will be reunited with family members in
heaven.

Christianity

Modern Christians are united in their belief that Jesus is the son of God and that there is
an afterlife, based upon the claims of the Holy Bible and the life and teachings of Jesus Christ
and his disciples. Upon death, Christians believe that they come before God and are judged.
According to Smith (1991), "Following death, human life is fully translated into the supernatural
domain" (p. 355).
Fundamentalists and conservatives interpret the Holy Bible literally and
believe that there is a specific heaven and hell and that only Christians are admitted to heaven.
All others are condemned to hell. Other Christians interpret Biblical scripture more symbolically,
taking into consideration the language and culture of the time when the Bible was written.
Heaven and hell are viewed as a "condition," such as happiness or peace, rather than a specific
place.
Regardless of whether the afterlife beliefs are interpreted conservatively or liberally, the
Christian believes that he or she dies only once and that after death, the spirit is judged, and then
exists in an afterlife for eternity. According to scripture, "It is appointed for men to die once, and
after that comes judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).
Near-death experiences appear to be familiar para-normal occurrences to Christians.
Bechtel, Chen, Pierce, & Walker reported that 98% of the clergy that they surveyed were
familiar with near-death phenomena and that almost half of them have counseled parishioners
who had a near-death experience.
As with other religious interpretations of the near-death
experience, Christians also report encounters with religious beings such as Jesus, Mary, or
angels. Experiencers report similar out-of-body experiences, meeting recognizable spiritual
entities, movement toward a bright light, and a sense of being in the presence of an energy of
"unconditional love" while the experiencer judges his or her life.

Some Christians refute the near-death experience as being a demonic deception. They
believe that the entire near-death experience is a trick of Satan to pull believers from the
teachings of Christianity and lead them into sin. Other Christians interpret the near-death
experience as a glimpse of an after death state that may exist prior to the after life judgment by
God. Near-death experiences and experiences similar to the altered state of the near-death
experiences are recorded in the Christian scriptures. These experiences are not reported as being
evil or sinful. The scripture writers have recorded visions of bright lights, life reviews, the
presence of the unconditional love of God, and visions of heaven and hell from biblical
individuals who have been close to death. In the Apostle Paul's letter to the Corinthians, II
Corinthians 12:1-10, Paul records a "vision" he had. This vision resembles the content of a near-
death experience. It involved Paul being "taken up to heaven for a visit" and "hear[ing] things so
astounding that they are beyond man's power to describe or put in words,
however these verses never say that Paul actually died, it was a vision.
" Near-death experiencers consistently report the difficulty of verbalizing what they experience.
The effect of this experience, on Paul, was a personal confirmation and assurance of his work.

According to Flynn (1986), to many experiencers, "the near-death experience affirms the
uniqueness and centrality and indispensability of Christ, but in a universalistic way that does not
negate or diminish the value of other religious traditions...[It will] break through sectarian and
other barriers and shine a laser beam of Light on the true essence and meaning of Christ for all
people" (p. 80). Ring (1985) supports Flynn's comments, in his conclusions regarding the
universalistically spiritual orientation of experiencers following near-death experiences. He
found that following a near-death experience, the Christian experiencer "gravitated towards a
religious world view that may incorporate and yet transcend the traditional Christian
perspective" (p. 147). This idea would make all religions equal in the sense of Gods identity and his
purpose for humanity.

Conclusion

All near death experiences are a result of the mind set or religious world view of the person experiencing these visions. This indicates that there is no spirituality involved in NDE due to non conformity in all views but rather is a product of each individuals own perception of their God and other characters and practices associated with their God.

NDE is not unique to professing Christianity. You would think that if NDE was allowed by GOD that everyone regardless of their religion would see the same god , the same religious persons who died long ago like Moses, Noah, Peter, Paul. This is not the case. Apparently GOD allows other religions to see Allah, Buddha, Mohamed and others pertaining to their own religions. If NDE was real you would think GOD would have all see HIM and Jesus not Allah and Mohamed.

Outcast · May 30, 2024

I would think that the experiences claimed by some are not comprehensible to those who have not had the same experience. Applying logic to an illogical event may be fruitless, because it is not math or science. I'm certain that, for those who claim to have experienced it; there is no doubt that it happened. For those who have not, we can only guess.

I play ball with my dogs. I watch their behavior and, in my mind, I try to imagine what is going on inside their brains. I attribute my human thoughts to them to make sense of their choices.

The reality taking place is not knowable to me, but I make assumptions and keep playing. I know they enjoy the game by the wagging of their tails and how excited they get.

That is really all I can expect to know.

LeeB · May 30, 2024

Outcast said:
I would think that the experiences claimed by some are not comprehensible to those who have not had the same experience. Applying logic to an illogical event may be fruitless, because it is not math or science. I'm certain that, for those who claim to have experienced it; there is no doubt that it happened. For those who have not, we can only guess.

I play ball with my dogs. I watch their behavior and, in my mind, I try to imagine what is going on inside their brains. I attribute my human thoughts to them to make sense of their choices.

The reality taking place is not knowable to me, but I make assumptions and keep playing. I know they enjoy the game by the wagging of their tails and how excited they get.

That is really all I can expect to know.

When Jesus plainly says that no man ascends to heaven, John 3:13 , then I must believe him. I conclude that anything that is opposite of his words to the degree of people going to heaven in NDE must originate from a source opposed to YAHWEHS truth. Ephesians 4:21 I have recently been accused of being in a bible bubble and out of touch with the reality in the world. The world belongs to Satan by the will of YAHWEH. Are we to believe the world or Christ ? The scriptures are replete with ample proof that dead people or near to death people do not ascend to heaven. Acts 2:34 I believe that NDE is Satanic. An effort by the forces of darkness to continue the lie of, thou shall not surely die. We do surely die. Death is not life, they are complete opposites. If we do not eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood we have no life. Life, immortality, is a gift, from GOD . If near or after death we all, even Buddhists and Islamics , float in the either because we are all immortal souls the what about the gift ? The question of what happens after death is answered by scripture not doctors or worldly preachers. YAHWEHS word is truth and anything that goes against it is not truth. The only way to have life beyond this life is by a resurrection from the dead provided to us by the sacrifice of YAHWEHS son.

I am re-posting an article about this subject. Please give it a read. The answers are in scripture.

Immortal Soul
By
Lee
Before discussing the title topic, it is necessary to define it. What does immortal mean? According to Webster’s dictionary immortal is: exempt from death, lasting forever. What about the bible definition for immortal: Strong’s concordance article #110 Greek, deathlessness.
There are other words that are synonyms with immortal:
Webster’s- everlasting, lasting or existing forever
Strong’s article #166 Greek- everlasting, lasting forever
Immortality and everlasting life are the same thing according to man’s dictionary and God’s word. The immortal soul could be referred to as the everlasting soul, living forever soul or deathless soul. The soul of a human being is believed by many to live on forever having everlasting life either in heaven or hell.
The greatest question of all time must be what happens when we die?
Job asked this question.
KJV Job 14:13-15
13. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14. If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
15. Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Job said he would wait in the grave for a change to come at a set
time. Job was referring to the resurrection of the dead when the saints are changed at an appointed time.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:51-52
51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
One of the major doctrines of the churches today is that all human beings have an immortal soul. The bible tells us how God made human beings.
KJV Genesis 2:7
7. And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
There are two ingredients, if you will, that compose a human being, the dust of the ground and the breath of life. These two ingredients are what make a soul, a human being. A soul then is not something you have it is what you are. You are a living breathing creature, which is what the original Hebrew word for soul means. It means the same for animals as well as humans. Below is the Hebrew meaning of the word soul.

Romanized nephesh
Pronounced neh'-fesh
Strong's Concordance
From HSN5314; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental):
KJV Ecclesiastes 3:18-19
18. I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Our human spirit is the breath of life from God and is what gives us our intelligence, mind and inspiration.
ASV Job 32:8
8. But there is a spirit in man and the breath of the Almighty gives them understanding.
The breath of life breathed into us is our conscience and is what we really are, the dust, or body, is what houses the mind or spirit of man.
ASV 1 Corinthians 2:11
11. For who among men knows the things of a man, save the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the things of God none knows save the Spirit of God.
Our human intelligence comes by the spirit of man, the breath of God from creation, that is what a man can know, but only the Spirit of God knows the things of God. Your human spirit, or spirit of man, is no more immortal than your body is. Your thoughts perish upon death and your thoughts are the function of your spirit. King David knew that death is death and that he was not immortal.
KJV Psalms 146:2-4
2. While I live will I praise the Lord: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
3. Put not your trust in princes, or in the son of man, in whom there is no help.
4. His breath goes forth, he returns to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
David could only praise the Lord while he was alive and had being as a soul and says that the breath of life goes and we return to the Earth, or dust, and our thoughts perish.
King David had God's Holy Spirit.
KJV Psalms 51:11
11. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.
Many would think that David went to heaven after death but scripture says no.
KJV Acts 2:29
29. Men and brethren let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulcher is with us unto this day.
KJV Acts 2:34
34. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Isaiah the prophet knew the dead cannot even praise God or learn His truth.
KJV Isaiah 38:18-19
18. For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
19. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth.
David did not have an immortal soul and did not go to heaven when he died but David is awaiting the resurrection at the return of Jesus Christ. Enoch and Elijah, who were prophets, were both translated but did they go to God in heaven?
KJV Hebrews 11:5
5. By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
Enoch is one of those referred to as "these all" that died, therefore Enoch died just as all people do. It is appointed to all once to die. Enoch did not receive the promise, which is immortality.
KJV Hebrews 11:13
13. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
KJV Hebrews 11:39-40
39. And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40. God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
KJV Hebrews 11:35
35. Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
Neither Enoch nor Elijah realized the promise of immortality but hoped for a better resurrection at the return of Jesus. All the saints will at that time receive immortality together.
Notice that there is nothing said about the soul being immortal. This is because you, a soul, are mortal and can die. Sin can kill a soul.
KJV Ezekiel 18:4
4. Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
If a soul was immortal it could not die therefore if a soul can die it is not immortal.
KJV Matthew 10:28
28. And fear not them, which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Here Jesus says that both body and soul can be destroyed. The word soul in this verse is the old King James English word for spirit but the actual Greek word is psuche, which means breath or spirit. Just as in Genesis there are only two parts of man that Jesus mentions, dust and breath.
When God made a human being He breathed our spirit into our body which is the dust of the ground so that the breath of God is our spirit and the dust is our body. Jesus says plainly that both our spirit and our body can be destroyed. This is how a soul can die. Sin is what can kill a soul.
According to Jesus our body, or dust, and our spirit, or breath, can both be destroyed.
If you think a certain scripture says that you go to heaven or hell immediately after death then it would be in conflict with other scriptures that say the exact opposite. The bible cannot contradict itself but a biased thought in your mind could be wrong so as to make you think it does. The idea of instantly going to heaven or hell after death makes judgment day for each person at the time of death rather than collectively, for all people, at the great white throne judgment. How many times are we to be judged, if a person dies and goes to heaven or hell you would think that judgment has already been rendered, why have another for all people at the great white throne? Why have a resurrection of the dead if the dead are alive in heaven or hell?
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:53
53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
In this verse Paul says that humans are mortal and must put on immortality at the resurrection so that would mean that we do not have immortality now but in the future when Jesus returns. Since the body is agreed by all to be mortal and is not to receive immortality then all that is left of man, his spirit, is what must receive or put on immortality. This means that the human spirit is not immortal if it has to put immortality on. Here we see agreement in the scriptures.
Scripture says that humanity is mortal and not immortal.
KJV Job 4:17
17. Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker?
KJV Romans 2:7
7. To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, everlasting life:
Here Paul says that we must seek for immortality.
The question needs to be asked, why if we already have an immortal soul? We are not immortal souls but are told by Paul to seek immortality by faith in Jesus. The promise of the gospel is everlasting life, which is immortality. You do not seek for what you already have but you seek for what you hope for and for what is promised.
KJV 1 John 2:25
25. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even everlasting life.
Jesus Christ gave His life as the ultimate sacrifice to forgive our sins and sin is what kills our souls in the first place. The gospel is God's message to us that gives us the hope of receiving immortality in the resurrection at Christ's return.

KJV 2 Timothy 1:10
10. But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

We must believe the gospel and have faith in Christ in order to have the hope of immortality.
Since we are not immortal souls the promise of immortality or everlasting life comes through faith in Jesus Christ.
The reward or promise to us is not a place called heaven but immortal life itself. No unrepentant sinner will ever have immortality or everlasting life.
KJV 1 John 3:15
15. Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath everlasting life abiding in him.
If an unrepentant murderer does not have immortality or everlasting life then he cannot be living forever in hell could he? Everlasting life or immortality is a gift that God gives to those who know the gospel and have faith in Jesus.
God withheld immortality from humanity after Adam and Eve committed the original sin.

KJV Genesis 3:22-24
22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

Adam rejected immortality that God offered him in the tree of life and just as a murderer, adulterer or any other sinner does not have everlasting life in him Adam was motral and did die.

23. Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the Garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword, which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
As we have seen, God will not give immortality, everlasting life, to unrepentant sinners. God is not making the evil part of humanity into demonic type spirit beings that live forever. God will destroy an evil soul forever and not allow it to live.
KJV Romans 6:23
23. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is everlasting life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
If immortality is a promised gift from God dependent on faith in Jesus then how can unbelievers have it? Even the saints do not receive immortality until Jesus returns. The wages of sin is not immortality in hell fire, it is death, absolute and complete death.
This means that death is just that, death, no life of any kind, the total absence of life is death. Even a child knows this is true. It is by faith in Christ only that anyone will have immortality when Jesus returns to give it as a gift to the saints.

KJV John 3:36
36. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.
We know that both body and spirit can be destroyed in God's wrath against an unrepentant sinner. This causes the sinner's existence to completely end forever and he is not living forever in hell. Scripture is said by Jesus to be unbreakable and will not contradict itself.
KJV John 10:35
35. If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
One scripture cannot be interpreted as saying we have immortal souls when others say plainly that we do not.
The scripture must agree on all points of doctrine, or else the bible would be full of contradictions. The world today has so many different churches with many differing doctrines because they jump to conclusions and do not prove the scripture with the scripture. In the very beginning, when God first made humans, He did not give them immortality because they sinned. The only way we can have immortality is by faith in Jesus and as a gift that we are promised and should seek. What Solomon had to say about death is as true today as when he first wrote these words.

KJV Ecclesiastes 9:10
10. Whatsoever thy hand finds to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
This scripture must agree with all other scripture if the bible is to remain pure and true. People do not have immortal souls; people are souls that die. Jesus gave His life so that, if we in faith believe, even if we do die He can resurrect us at His return. Until Christ returns no one goes to heaven or hell as people have falsely believed.
KJV John 3:12-13
12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13. And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man, which is in heaven.
Jesus is the only one who ever ascended to heaven. People are of this Earth, of dust, and return to dust at death. A soul is what we are and is composed of two things, breath and dust. These two things must be joined together in order to have a soul. If breath and dust separate, we die and all life ends. Death came to humanity because of sin and the hope of the gospel is that through faith in Jesus we can live again at the last day by a resurrection at His return to Earth.
KJV John 11:24
24. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Lazarus was resurrected to physical life again by Jesus and was not a spirit being of the resurrection that happens at the Second Advent. The "last day" that Martha refers to is when Jesus returns and the first resurrection happens. No human being has ever experienced the first resurrection and will not until Jesus returns. This means that all people, saint or sinner, when they die are as dead as a stone. If Lazarus was in heaven or hell when he died then he would have been brought back from heaven or hell. If from hell why would he escape the judgment and if heaven why would he be denied his reward?
To believe that we are immortal and already have everlasting life denies the entire reason of why Jesus died for us.
In the beginning God said that human beings would surely die if they ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Satan lied when he said; Thou shall not surely die. God said sin will kill a soul, which is what we are, Satan said it would not. This is the source of the false doctrine of immortality of the soul, Satan's lie. A soul is not immortal and will surely die because of sin but Satan wants us to believe that we will not die because of sin.
You see then how believing you are an immortal soul destroys the gospel of Jesus Christ. Upon death saint and sinner alike cease to exist and have no life of any kind.
Solomon was called the wisest man who ever lived and his words about death are very true today just as then. These words are scripture and are the truth because God's word is truth. Please read all the following verses.
KJV Ecclesiastes 9:2-10
2. All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
3. This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
4. For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5. For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6. Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in any thing that is done under the sun.
7. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
8. Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
9. Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labor which thou takest under the sun.
10. Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
No one at death goes to heaven or hell you simply die and cease to exist.
King David says,
KJV Psalms 115:17
17. The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence.
Jesus said,
KJV Luke 20:35-36
35. But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36. Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
The resurrection from the dead is the hope the saints have.
Paul says,

KJV Acts 24:15
15. And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:21-23
21. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
KJV 2 Timothy 4:8
8. Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day:
9. and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
KJV Romans 6:22
22. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
KJV Galatians 6:8
8. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
KJV Titus 1:2
2. In hope of everlasting life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
KJV Titus 3:7
7. That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of everlasting life.
KJV James 1:12
12. Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
KJV Revelation 2:7
7. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Remember the tree of life contained immortality that Adam rejected and if we overcome and endure to the end God will give us this immortality as a free gift.
KJV 1 John 5:11-12
11. And this is the record, that God hath given to us everlasting life, and this life is in his Son.
12. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
KJV Daniel 12:2
2. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV John 4:14
14. But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
KJV John 5:24
24. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
KJV John 6:27
27. Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
KJV John 6:40
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
KJV John 6:47
47. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
KJV Acts 13:46
46. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
Another important issue is the Jesus event. Jesus is described as, the first born among many brethren. What does this mean? Jesus was the very first human being to be changed from flesh to spirit. Jesus is the example that we must follow and God through Jesus demonstrated the entire process of salvation to us. Jesus has become God’s proof to us that He is able to do for us what He has said. Jesus ascended to the Father forty days after his resurrection.
Jesus was the only human being to ever do this. Jesus said that no man ascends to heaven except the son of man. If Enoch or Elijah ascended before Jesus did then Jesus could not be the first born among many brethren.
The thief on the cross with Jesus did not ascend to paradise.
KJV Luke 23:43
43. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
The comma in the above verse was put in the wrong place and should be as follows.
KJV Luke 23:43
43. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.
The thief will be with Jesus in paradise at the resurrection of the dead when Jesus returns to Earth. Jesus did not ascend until forty days after his resurrection so the promise to the thief could not have been that very day.
In summary immortality is a gift from God through faith in the gospel of Jesus and we must seek immortality through Jesus. There is no life of any kind beyond death except by faith in Christ. If we die with this faith and hope contained in the gospel we will remain dead until Christ returns to Earth. Then at the return of Jesus the dead in Christ, those who believe the gospel will put on or be resurrected to immortality. Human beings are mortal just as God made us and are souls that die because of sin just as God said. Repent and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ and you can have the hope of immortality in the resurrection at the return of Jesus to the Earth

Outcast · May 31, 2024

My brother, I think I have failed to communicate properly.

I am not saying that anyone goes to heaven during the period when the heart stops. Nobody goes to heaven when they die. Those who claim to "see Jesus" may have had visions, but I am not saying that they went anywhere. I cannot say that they did not have visions. The question may simply be "did they dream when their heart stopped?"

Brain scans have shown the brain still active for some period of time after the heart stops. Whatever is happening in the brain varies between people and what they remember seeing during that period. They are called NDE's.

If the hearts had not restarted, we'd never know what the brain saw. We don't know why they have thoughts that they report regarding that period of time.

When my Mom died, my brothers and I remained in the room talking. To our surprise, tears came out of her eyes. I have no clue as to the reason, but that memory is still vivid for me. Was her brain still active? How can her body shed tears after her heart stopped? I don't know, and it is not a testament to the "science of scripture." After all, scripture is not provided as a science book.

I hope to see my Mom again at the end of days, just as I hope to see my Dad.

I hope that I stated my position on this better this time.

If my heart stops momentarily and I revive, then maybe I'll have a personal vision myself. I know that I am going nowhere until God calls at the end of days.

LeeB · May 31, 2024

Outcast said:
My brother, I think I have failed to communicate properly.

I am not saying that anyone goes to heaven during the period when the heart stops. Nobody goes to heaven when they die. Those who claim to "see Jesus" may have had visions, but I am not saying that they went anywhere. I cannot say that they did not have visions. The question may simply be "did they dream when their heart stopped?"

Brain scans have shown the brain still active for some period of time after the heart stops. Whatever is happening in the brain varies between people and what they remember seeing during that period. They are called NDE's.

If the hearts had not restarted, we'd never know what the brain saw. We don't know why they have thoughts that they report regarding that period of time.

When my Mom died, my brothers and I remained in the room talking. To our surprise, tears came out of her eyes. I have no clue as to the reason, but that memory is still vivid for me. Was her brain still active? How can her body shed tears after her heart stopped? I don't know, and it is not a testament to the "science of scripture." After all, scripture is not provided as a science book.

I hope to see my Mom again at the end of days, just as I hope to see my Dad.

I hope that I stated my position on this better this time.

If my heart stops momentarily and I revive, then maybe I'll have a personal vision myself. I know that I am going nowhere until God calls at the end of days.

Thanks Outcast for your clarification. My mind was much more focused on the comments made by another who seems to think people actually do go to heaven at near death or literal death. I wrote because of the comments this person made about scripture.

Petunia · Jun 30, 2024

Thank you Lee for all the work you did! It kept me pleasantly busy for hours!

As JW we learned that nefesj (Heb.7585) and psuche (Gr.5590) are the same.
Comp. Ps. 16:10 -> Acts 2:27
Job 2:4 - > Mark 8:37

The KJV translates psuche as:
life/lives: 23x
heart: 1x
heartily: 1x
mind(s): 2x
us: 1 x
Soul(s): all the other times

The NWT (Rbi8): translates psuche EVERY TIME (>100) as soul(s)

From all the texts you can replace soul with:
1. The person (I, he, etc.)
2.(The person’s) life

But I got stuck on Mat.10:28a: fear not them, which kill the body, but are NOT ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL.

So Christ says people can NOT kill the soul (but God can)
People can stop someone’s life and can stop someone to be a (living) person
So what is the soul in this vers?

I believe it refers to future, eternal life (people can not take it, God can), like it also does in these texts:

1 Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Luke 21:16,19 (And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to DEATH.) In your patience possess ye your souls.

Just a suggestion concerning the NDE: maybe God has built something in us that makes us see something beautiful and comforting at the end. Like the dying body also produces substances that ease pain. In that case it is a present from our loving Father.
Like so many beautiful things God made it is misused to support satan’s lies (and in some cases it may be directly used).

LeeB · Jun 30, 2024

Matthew 10:28 The word soul here should be spirit. we should not fear those who can only kill the body. The human spirit is not killed but goes back to GOD is a state of non operation, it is held in suspension, sometimes called sleep and is aware of nothing. The way God can kill a spirit is the lake of fire, the second death. This is where both body and spirit perish forever and is the punishment for committing the unpardonable sin.

Petunia · Jun 30, 2024

How can you ALTER THE WORDS OF CHRIST like that?
In Greek it clearly says SOUL not Spirit!

I agreed with (most of) your reasoning, what is wrong with my suggestion?

LeeB · Jun 30, 2024

The word soul in the creation of Adam where Adam became a living soul is the Hebrew word nephesh, Strongs #5315. The word breath is the Hebrew word neshamah, Strongs #5397 the breath of life from GOD. Genesis 2:7. The Greek word that translators used, “soul” in Matthew 10:28 is psuche, Strongs #5590 which means breath of life. You should see that there is a problem with this word because a soul is the complete person the breath of life only being part of the soul. This the translators did not know and they have confused the two words to mean the same thing which they do not. The truth of GODS creation of a human has never changed, the soul is the complete person and breath and dust are the two ingredients that make a soul. I did not change the words of Jesus, the translators did. Rendered in the way currently in Matthew 10:28 makes no sense. In death the body does die, James 2:26 first part, the human spirit, the breath of life goes back to GOD in a totally dormant state waiting a resurrection. Therefore, do not be afraid of those who can kill the body but cannot kill the human spirit, the breath of life. Rather fear HIM who can kill both body and human spirit in hell. Ecclesiastes 12:7 Luke 23:26 Acts 7:59 Job 34:14,15 Job 32:8
The second death, the lake of fire kills the entire soul, body and spirit, there is nothing left and this is why we all should fear GOD.

LeeB · Jun 30, 2024

Petunia said:
Thank you Lee for all the work you did! It kept me pleasantly busy for hours!

As JW we learned that nefesj (Heb.7585) and psuche (Gr.5590) are the same.
Comp. Ps. 16:10 -> Acts 2:27
Job 2:4 - > Mark 8:37

The KJV translates psuche as:
life/lives: 23x
heart: 1x
heartily: 1x
mind(s): 2x
us: 1 x
Soul(s): all the other times

The NWT (Rbi8): translates psuche EVERY TIME (>100) as soul(s)

From all the texts you can replace soul with:
1. The person (I, he, etc.)
2.(The person’s) life

But I got stuck on Mat.10:28a: fear not them, which kill the body, but are NOT ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL.

So Christ says people can NOT kill the soul (but God can)
People can stop someone’s life and can stop someone to be a (living) person
So what is the soul in this vers?

I believe it refers to future, eternal life (people can not take it, God can), like it also does in these texts:

1 Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Luke 21:16,19 (And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to DEATH.) In your patience possess ye your souls.

Just a suggestion concerning the NDE: maybe God has built something in us that makes us see something beautiful and comforting at the end. Like the dying body also produces substances that ease pain. In that case it is a present from our loving Father.
Like so many beautiful things God made it is misused to support satan’s lies (and in some cases it may be directly used).

One minor detail, you wrote: “In Muslim near-death experiences, the Being of Light is identified as Allah, whereas in other religions the light might be identified as God.”

Allah is not a name for a moslim-God, it is simply Arabic for God (literally: el ileh = the god = Allah = God). All Arabic bibles translate God into Allah.

As to your suggestion, I cannot verify NDE one way or the other using scripture. However, not all people experience NDE and some of those who do have gone to hell and seen the devil. If a persons breath of life, the human spirit, leaves the body it dose not return until a resurrection. While scriptures do not directly address NDE they do enforce what life and death is. Stephen, in Acts 7:55,56 had a vision of comfort him but it was before he was stoned to death.

Petunia · Jul 1, 2024

The word for soul was used for a person, but also for LIFE - both in Hebrew as in Greek:

Mat.2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life [or soul 5590].

6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life [or soul 5590], what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul [or life 5590]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul [or life 5590] and body in hell.

10:39 He that findeth his life [or soul 5590] shall lose it: and he that loseth his life [or soul 5590] for my sake shall find it.

16:25 For whosoever will save his life [or soul 5590] shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life [or soul 5590] for my sake shall find it.

20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life [or soul 5590] a ransom for many.

John 13:37 Peter said unto him, Lord, why cannot I follow thee now? I will lay down my life [or soul 5590] for thy sake.

15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life [or soul 5590] for his friends.

Acts 20:10 And Paul went down, and fell on him, and embracing him said, Trouble not yourselves; for his life [or soul 5590] is in him.

Rom. 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life [or soul 5590].

See 1 kings 19:14b and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life [or soul [5315], to take it away.

Gen. 35:18 And it came to pass, as her soul [life: 5315] was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

If Soul can refer to life, it can refer to future life as well:

1 Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls [or: future life]

Luke 21:16,19 (And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to DEATH.) In your patience possess ye your souls [or: future life].

Matth.10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul [or: future life]: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul [or: future life] and body in hell.

Language is not an equation, it means what people understood it to be in the time it was spoken.
The Bible is very clear on how they used the word soul - both in Hebrew and Greek: the person OR LIFE.

I don’t say that you are 100% wrong, but you’re not 100% right either.

If you hold on to the Bible as you say you do, then you go back to the drawing table (John 14:26) and make your understanding fit the Holy Scriptures, not the other way around! (Mat.15:6)

It’s exactly like you said: “many try to reshape a piece of the puzzle to fit their narrative and make the puzzle picture unrecognizable… They do not search diligently enough and have stopped short of finding how the puzzle pieces fit. Rather than alter the puzzle pieces they need to alter their ideas and thoughts to be spiritual … GOD designed scripture to correct us, we don’t correct scripture.”

LeeB · Jul 1, 2024

A human life is the soul because the soul is the union of the human spirit and the human body. In this it is the spirit that gives life to the body. If there is a dead soul, what that means is the spirit has left the body. John 6:63 Ecclesiastes 12:7 Luke 8:55
In 1 Kings 17:21,22,23 Elijah asked GOD to let a child’s soul come back. In other words send the child’s spirit back to his body to become a living soul again. Some translations use the word life instead of soul. The NET bible uses the word breath. The soul returning means the spirit re entering the body. The soul is life only because the spirit is present. Without the spirit there is no life. James 2:26 Job 34:14,15 Psalm 104:29 I am not reshaping the puzzle, there are two pieces here dust and breath. In order for dust to live breath must be present. This is biblical fact. The soul is only alive if the spirit is present. The passage of time will not change this truth.
Genesis 35:18 many translations say her dying breath, her last breath, breathed her last. Rachel’s body did not go back to GOD, her spirit did and when this happened she was no longer a soul, a living breathing creature.
If I were to murder a man that man’s spirit would return to GOD, I could only kill the body that will break the union of the soul but I cannot kill the man’s spirit, I cannot cause the spirit to return to the body to have a soul again. GOD can kill a spirit and body simultaneously destroying the soul, the complete person. How we relate to the meaning of words is very important. Perhaps you should seek the input of others here, ask Lori Jane or Outcast, anyone, after all in a multitude of counselors there is safety.

LeeB · Jul 1, 2024

When I read Matthew 28:10 This is what I see; “ Do not be afraid of those who kill the body (the dust of the ground) but cannot kill the soul (the complete person body and spirit). Rather fear HIM who can destroy both soul (the complete person body and spirit) and body (the dust only) in hell.
The word body is fine, it is the word soul that translators substituted for spirit. Yes a soul is alive but not without a spirit. Remove the spirit and the body is dead. This again is biblical truth. The word soul is used here to support the immortal soul idea. The word hell is there for the same reason.

Here is how I see this verse by the Holy Spirit. “ Do not be afraid of those who kill the body (the dust of the ground) but cannot kill the spirit (that part of a person that imparts life to the body) . Rather fear HIM who can destroy both spirit and body (the complete person) in hell.

It is interesting to note the word hell because it is not what Jesus said either. Jesus used the word “geenne” Strongs #106. which refers to the lake of fire, the final punishment for the incorrigible, where both body and spirit, the complete person or soul is destroyed.

Petunia · Jul 1, 2024

Thank you for explaining.

I’m sorry Lee if I came on to strong. I’ve become really allergic to people who change the meaning of words - like is common now in the world and happened all the time with the JW’s, their Bible and other Bibles too.
we both seek the truth - I have to think and pray about this

And sure if anyone can add something or wants to share his/her thoughts please do!

LeeB · Jul 1, 2024

Don’t worry about it. You have a lot of passion and gumption which I like. If you have questions or doubts voice them. Just think, your experience with the JW’s did prove to have some positive impact.

Petunia · Jul 2, 2024

Outcast · Jul 3, 2024

Petunia said:
My hunger for knowing the truth is stronger than my fears, but I’ll have to do it on my own pace and take into consideration “little Petunia”. (See )

I completely understand. For years, I believed the teachings of man and even repeated their teachings to others. I repent of that.
The best thing that my schooling taught me what how to study scripture, and our friend Lee has shown me the safeguard that God provides by trusting Him for my learning in conjunction with my hermeneutics. God has already shown me that He will give me conviction of truths that overcame years of bad doctrines.

LeeB · Jul 3, 2024

Petunia said:
This discussion triggers my religious trauma: I’m afraid of being misled again, I’m afraid that doing nothing is wrong, but at the same time afraid of making the wrong choice, afraid of missing out, afraid of losing my loved ones again, afraid I can’t understand, afraid that I am not good enough, etc.

So I’m taking the time to recover and to focus on my own Bible reading.
There’s a busy time coming up at work, but I’m planning to be back during my vacation.

My hunger for knowing the truth is stronger than my fears, but I’ll have to do it on my own pace and take into consideration “little Petunia”. (See )

“I will only go as fast as the slowest part of me feels save to go” - from: Gentle with myself (Karen Drucker)

Take care!

I remember feeling just as you do now 30 years ago. I was scared to death about the world I made for myself in the WCG falling apart . It takes time, faith and patience. Hebrews 10:31 You are like me, dying to live in Christ. Romans 6:8 Galatians 2:20

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