General Heaven on Earth / Kingdom on Earth
- Thread starter Lori Jane
- Start date
Brother, even that is being debated. There are horror stories out there about people being determined to be brain dead that awakened later.
Then they were not brain dead. If the human spirit leaves the body it does not return it goes to YAHWEH. In this condition, without a body, the human spirit does not function, this is verified by scripture. Other religions have people claiming NDE and they see Buddha or Allah . In Islam martyrs receive 72 virgins. If NDE is YAHWEH approved then would they not see YAHWEH . My point is that life is not in the brain but in the spirit. If the brain is truly dead then the spirit is gone. Satan and his demons are capable of imitating living things, interfacing with both animal and human spirits. I believe all NDE are rooted in the person’s personal religious beliefs no matter what religion they are. I do not believe that YAHWEH is behind NDE but rather Satan. The other fellow told me I was in a bible bubble and that he was going with what he sees in the world, does that sound Christian ? See what effect NDE has had on him. If YAHWEHS word, the scriptures, are truth then NDE must be a lie. The only way to be alive after being dead is by a resurrection due to faith in Christ.
Apparently McSquidly has only researched the Christian experience of NDE. Other religions have reported having NDE and the while there are some similarities the differences are significant. Each nonChristian report was uniquely associated with their idea of GOD, their idea of a prophet or representative of their God, the people in their version of heaven are only those of their own religion. If the true GOD was behind NDE would not all people regardless of their religion see the true GOD, Christ and those associated with them rather than pagan visions. This causes me to conclude that NDE is not from YAHWEH but another source.
We are once again discussing a statement that is short of being firm.
I guess we may be aware that even doctors and the medical profession have discussed among themselves how to determine what death is. Even now, this topic is debated. For a very long time, the cessation of blood flow was considered "dead," but the brain stem was still active. The practice of organ donation has caused debate for a long time now, as those who were processed for a donation may have still been alive because the brain was not yet dead.
We do not know what is going on in the brain of those who are assumed to be dead, but since there is brain activity; I think we err in our assumptions of death. If it were not for organ donations; we probably would not even has this discussion.
If the brain is not "dead," since it is the life or a person, a restart of the circulatory system may still be possible.
God breathed in His Spirit to make Adam "a living soul." If the spirit is still there - thoughts still occurring (which we do not have a way to examine) - the body is still a soul. Yahweh determines when a person is dead, not the medical profession. Any memories that exist if the heart starts beating again prove nothing except that there was brain activity. Well, I think it does prove that it was not the God-directed time to die.
The debate of Near Death Experience profits nothing. I'll go with the absence of our spirit. When it leaves, then we are simply future dust.
The scriptural passage that describes Paul's near-death experience and his vision of being taken elsewhere is found in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. In this passage, Paul writes:"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter."
Although Paul speaks in the third person, it is generally understood that he is referring to his own experience
.In this account, Paul describes being "caught up to the third heaven" and into "Paradise," where he heard inexpressible things
.It's worth noting that while Paul doesn't explicitly state this was a near-death experience, he does mention being "often near death" in 2 Corinthians 11:23-25, which is in close proximity to the passage about his heavenly vision
.Some scholars and theologians have speculated that this experience might be connected to Paul's stoning in Lystra, as described in Acts 14:19-20, where he was left for dead but later got up and returned to the city
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What you call a near death experience I call a vision from GOD. No man including Paul , John 3:5 John 3:13 has ever went to heaven. Soon after Paul’s conversion he went to Arabia and has his vision. Paul was not dead,or near death he simply had a vision. Joel 2:28 Acts 2:17,18
You are making an assumption here LeeB - that a demonic spirit was impersonating Samuel. One could also see this as it actually was Samuel and hence there is existence beyond the veil of our experience on earth now in our physical 3D non-spiritual bodies.
I wonder if all the "witches" or mediums were attempted to be stamped out (1 Samuel 28:9) because they were able to reveal certain truths that were inconvenient. Saul knew otherwise it seems and knew where to get the answers and they turned out to be correct. Hmmmm?
Religion today teaches anything from spirits is all bad / evil/ suspect. The bible says to "test the spirits" and we do that by various means:
The Bible provides several methods for "testing the spirits" to discern whether they are from God or not:
It is a biblical fact, spiritual truth that once dead the only way to live again is by a resurrection and until that time a spirit that returns to GOD knows nothing, can do nothing. The witch of Endor used a “familiar spirt” , a spirit the knew Samuel and could impersonate him. People do not come back from the dead as ghostly apparitions. Scripture says thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Yet you say they are a revealer of the truth of GOD. A witch is a woman who is a servant of the devil, should one go to her to learn truth ? 1 Corinthians 10:21
What I have done is what Paul said, Ephesians 5:11 Isaiah 8:19. These scriptures only scratch the surface of what the Bible teaches about the things we are discussing here. Deuteronomy 8:10,12 Leviticus 19:31
2 Kings 21:4,5,6 Jeremiah 27:9,10 I would not be loving at all to not warn a person of the dangers involved in this type of behavior. Why rush in where angels fear to tread ? Saul died because, 1 Chronicles 10:13
I respect you view - I used to view that way as well but have recently been convinced by compelling evidence that Near Death Experiences (NDEs) and Out of Body Experiences (OBEs) are "vision like" but none the less real and experiences of a spiritual body experiencing things outside of the earthly realm. I think visions are more dream-like - these are very physical-like.
I personally have had an OBE in my 20s which I buried because it scared me. Watching tons of NDEs on Youtube brought that experience back to the forefront of my mind. I know for a fact my consciousness was outside of my body. I was above my body looking down. I did not go anywhere as NDE folks and other OBE folks have described but none-the less I know I was not my body - I was my consciousness and eventually after 24 hours I reintegrated.
There are so many comonalities amonth these NDE/OBE folks - a majority report a feeling of overwhelming love and non-judgment, time did not feel linear, they had a supportive being guiding them - some saw Jesus, some felt it was a dead loved one, some didn't know the identity but felt the love and support. The faiths ranged from Christian, Jewish, Atheist, etc. and most come away being profoundly changed and more aware of spiritual things, more in tune with emotions of others.
The bible says our spirit goes back to God - so this fits for me.
- Ecclesiastes 12:7 explicitly states the spirit returns to God
- Psalms 49:15 mentions God will "redeem my life from the grave" and "surely take me to himself"
Lori Jane, would you please give us the story of your OBE? There is a book about about an 8-year-old boy named Bubo written by his parents that tell of their surprise when they found out. Please tell us more about yours, please.
For Anyone who dies their spirit is no longer in their body, it goes back to GOD and has no ability to function in any way. I research the Bible, the word of truth, inspired words of GOD. I have already given sufficient scriptures that are proof that NDE or OBE is impossible. In death neither body or spirit cannot operate because the union of the soul has been broken. Notice a LIVING BEING is a soul, the combination of dust and breath and there is only life when joined but no life at all in seperated.
People, look at how McSquidly dishonors GODS word and is encouraging you to into the world to find answers, test the spirits on this.
When the spirit leaves the body this is death. When dead neither the body or the spirit functions at all because the two are interdependent, to function they must be a soul. This biblical fact is proof that NDE and OBE cannot be possible. There is another explanation for this phenomenon. A persons soul can be taken over and controlled. Their will is overcome by another , their thoughts and actions controlled by another. A person does not need to be near death for this to happen. A persons mind and body is subjected to the control of the other but after the other departs the person regains control but lingering effects from the experience will occur. What ever the other injects into the persons mind will be perceived as real when in fact it never happened. The person will however be totally convinced that it did. There is is Mark 5:2-15 carefully notice that when Jesus cast out the others only then was the man IN HIS RIGHT MIND. The others can indeed control a persons mind, can cause a person to see and hear, have experiences that never happened but yet feel very sure they have. These others in this man had conversation with Jesus ; Matthew 8:29,30,31,32 This also took place in Acts 19:13,14,15,16 The others must be in control of body and mind of a person to do theses things. Jesus explains with extra detail ; Luke 12:24,25,26 So then this is the other way that the NDE and OBE Phenomenon is explained.
Good illustration, LeeB. People can be confusing when they mix terms - and I sometimes do that as well. Words like "brain," "mind," "heart," and "spirit" are seen as synonyms. That makes conversation difficult.
To top that off, a person's perceptions are also their "reality."
Over time, I discovered that a person can want to believe something - and that something will continue to exist for them despite any argument contrary to it. I suffered from that for quite a while (and am still climbing out of that pit). There is no way that logic can change a mind when logic was never part of the decision to start with. Typically, our knowledge stems from our emotions which may not be logical.
I dare say that this world would operate differently if we were Star Trek Vulcans. Emotions are a double-edged sword.
I have know the truth about what life and death is for over thirty years.
Once about 25 years ago a woman came to me after church services and told me that she has been seeing her recently deceased mother. She described what she saw as a ghostly apparition . I could see that she was very emotional about this and I showed her scriptures that explained what death is and that her mother was not in hell but that her spirit, the real her, went back to GOD inoperative just as all people that die and awaits a future resurrection. I showed her scripture where demons can impersonate the dead. To this day I do not know if she believed what I said, people believe what they want to believe.
Once about 25 years ago a woman came to me after church services and told me that she has been seeing her recently deceased mother. She described what she saw as a ghostly apparition . I could see that she was very emotional about this and I showed her scriptures that explained what death is and that her mother was not in hell but that her spirit, the real her, went back to GOD inoperative just as all people that die and awaits a future resurrection. I showed her scripture where demons can impersonate the dead. To this day I do not know if she believed what I said, people believe what they want to believe.