English Debate with Trinitarian TODAY!
- Thread starter benadam1974
- Start date
I pray that God & Jesus will bless you with guidance, to expose the lie of the preexisting god the son, during this debate.
Ya done good Carlos. The best part was when you asked him your questions. Its always interesting to hear trinitarians try to wiggle out of John 17:3 and other extremely clear verses that identify only the Father as the one true God.
In the Beginning Was the Memra | Messianic Bible
The Memra (Word) of the Lord is the Jewish way to convey God’s many manifestations and expressions in His creation through His Words, including salvation.
free.messianicbible.com
Another terrible article. Its like look, all you have to do is capitalize the "W" on the word "Word"/"Logos" and walla, you gots yerself a 2nd person who is God (nevermind that that there are no capitals in Koine Greek).In the Beginning Was the Memra | Messianic Bible
The Memra (Word) of the Lord is the Jewish way to convey God’s many manifestations and expressions in His creation through His Words, including salvation.
Memra is not a substitute for the word of God but God Himself.In the Beginning Was the Memra | Messianic Bible
The Memra (Word) of the Lord is the Jewish way to convey God’s many manifestations and expressions in His creation through His Words, including salvation.
We all have our own journey to truth...I'm still on mine but this to me makes sense of the trinity which did not make sense before...but also how they are separate God the Father and His Word the Son...but still unified. He is the exact representation on His Father. No beginning and No end.
I'm not wasting my time watching this. As soon as someone believes that God is more that 1 person, more than the Father, then that person believes in gods, as in more than 1 God. Only the Father is God, nobody else.
I don't know if I even believe in the trinity per say ... but I believe in God the Father and in his Son Jesus and if Jesus is The Word that became flesh he has been with the Father all along. John 1:1 & John 1:14. And Jesus is the EXACT representation of his Father. Heb. 1:3 and in Heb. 1:8 the Father is saying of Jesus "GOD is your throne forever and ever". ...so if Jesus isn't also God (because they are one) then the Father is lying in this verse.
If you believe Jesus is being called God Almighty in Heb 1:8, then you must also believe that the unnamed king in Psalm 45:6, who happens to have a queen, is also God Almighty. Is your God the Father and god the son and the unnamed king of Psalm 45:6? That ain't Jesus's God, nor mine for that matter.
We can go on and on and on with this. I'm sure you have many "proof" verses to machine gun at me. Not interested right now, I have to get back to work.
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I'm honestly sorry not trying to upset you at all...just heartfelt trying to find the real "truth". Like I said I'm still on my journey and it helps me to know how other people are at peace with the conclusions they have drawn from scripture . I was a born in JW so still deprogramming.
Like the scripture in Isaiah also throws me where it says that Jesus will be called "Mighty God and Eternal Father". So far them being "one" using the same name is the only way I am finding that the Bible doesn't contradict itself. But people have debated it all for years before I started trying to find answers so I may never find a satisfying conclusion on it. But I agree with you there is only 1 Almighty God and he has a Son Jesus.
I'm just a bit grumpy today, sorry. Work deadlines. Yes, please keep deprogramming from the Watchtower. The name called in Isaiah 9:6 is just a long, Hebrew name. The Hebrew name Isaiah means "Yahweh is salvation". Does that mean that Isaiah was Yahweh? No.I'm honestly sorry not trying to upset you at all...just heartfelt trying to find the real "truth". Like I said I'm still on my journey and it helps me to know how other people are at peace with the conclusions they have drawn from scripture . I was a born in JW so still deprogramming.
But people have debated it all for years before I started trying to find answers so I may never find a satisfying conclusion on it. But I agree with you there is only 1 Almighty God and he has a Son Jesus.
Plus, Prince of peace is better understood as Ruler of peace or Chief of peace, but again its just a really long name. It doesn't mean Jesus is God.
Believers, who are not even born yet, are to be one with God & Jesus. One in purpose. John 17:20-23
One more and I gotta bounce. Heb 1:3, χαρακτήρ means exact representation. Real quick illustration. You have a paper document. You make a copy of that document with the scanner/printer. Now you have the original paper document and the copy of that document, which is an exact "representation". However, that copy can never be that original paper document. Jesus represents God, his Father, yo.
My only problem with that analogy is that if your boss came in and said have you seen the memo sheet you would say yes, you wouldn't say no I haven't all I got was this copy. You would say yes knowing that it's an exact copy of the memo even though it's two different sheets of paper. Father and Son also being different but the Son is a PART of the Father and doing as he is told. John 14:9-13 At least that is how I am understanding it. But I'm not dogmatic about anything because I'm still learning and reading, and reading, and reading. Thanks for your input, I appreciate hearing all views and continuously having my beliefs challenged...it helps me to continue digging.
Loving the discussion guys! And the nice respect. Well done.
If I may add my two cents <g>.
I watched that video you shared @Eyesontheprize and thought he did a good job - however, there is another way to view it IMHO. Try substituting "word" for "holy spirit".
Wisdom, word, etc. are facets of God. In Genesis he spoke things into existence yet we see the scriptures show us it was his holy spirit going to and fro. When God thinks something (plans it), speaks it - it is as good as done. Gen 3:15 was the first prophecy and we knew a son was coming and it developed over time and was revealed in the scriptures and finally, his word became reality in Jesus - his word - God's word - became flesh.
To me it doesn't mean God became Jesus - it means his plan, his word became Jesus as was prophesied long ago. And Jesus was so plugged into God's spirit - he was begotten by spirit he reflected his Father's will perfectly.
God uses his holy spirit - his power and often his personal presence (memre) to accomplish his will and purpose. We don't need a trinity framework to understand that IMHO.
If I may add my two cents <g>.
I watched that video you shared @Eyesontheprize and thought he did a good job - however, there is another way to view it IMHO. Try substituting "word" for "holy spirit".
Wisdom, word, etc. are facets of God. In Genesis he spoke things into existence yet we see the scriptures show us it was his holy spirit going to and fro. When God thinks something (plans it), speaks it - it is as good as done. Gen 3:15 was the first prophecy and we knew a son was coming and it developed over time and was revealed in the scriptures and finally, his word became reality in Jesus - his word - God's word - became flesh.
To me it doesn't mean God became Jesus - it means his plan, his word became Jesus as was prophesied long ago. And Jesus was so plugged into God's spirit - he was begotten by spirit he reflected his Father's will perfectly.
God uses his holy spirit - his power and often his personal presence (memre) to accomplish his will and purpose. We don't need a trinity framework to understand that IMHO.