General COMMANDMENTS OF THE LAW FOR THE WEEKLY SABBATH DAY

It was commanded that no work be done from sunset to sunset on the Sabbath. There are 39 types of work that were prohibited and anyone caught breaking the Sabbath is punished with death, only the Levite priests could work on the Sabbath.

On the Sabbath two one year old lambs without defect were sacrificed with a grain and drink offing in addition to the regular daily evening and morning sacrifices. Numbers 28:9,10

The baking and changing of the showbread is done on the Sabbath. Leviticus 24:8

Matthew 5:18 Luke 16:17 Romans 3:31 Romans 3:19 It is an absolute fact that the law, the Ten Commandments and Law of Moses totaling 613 commands is in full force today . No part of the law has been abolished and all humanity, Jew or Gentile, is under the law. Nothing in the law is to be added to or diminished from it. Deuteronomy 4:1,2 If anyone fails to keep just one point in the law they are guilty of breaking all of it. James 2:10 Matthew 5:19 Galatians 3:10 Romans 3:19,20 Galatians 5:3

There you have it. Anyone who desires to keep the law MUST KEEP ALL THE LAW. No one is permitted to cancel some parts of the law while keeping others, the law is an all or nothing thing. So then , anyone here on this forum who is into the law , is obligated to keep all 613 commandments contained in it under penalty of death. If anyone here on this forum does not agree with what I have written here then come forward and challenge me. Show me where GOD, Moses, Jesus and the Apostles and prophets were wrong.

 

[Outcast]

Good morning, brother. I expect no response to this from others, so I figured I'd see if I can generate a conversation.

Allowing the scriptures to explain scriptures, we can be confused by some of Paul's words. His teachings can be confusing. I am showing an example here.

The fact that he speaks of people who are NOT under "the Law" but subject to their own conscience.

Please show the relationship between your statement and these passages:

Rom 2:6–21 He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.

There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law,

and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified.

For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.

They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

But if you call yourself a Jew and rely on the law and boast in God and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed from the law; and if you are sure that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you then who teach others, do you not teach yourself?

 

[LeeB]

The law can only be fulfilled by agape that is given through the Holy Spirit to true Christians. Anyone not having the spirit cannot fulfill the intent of the law which is agape. The law was designed to lead people to Christ by its shadows and symbolism that when the light of Christ, who is the substance, would shine on the shadows to make them, the mysteries of the kingdom, knowable by the church. The law did not address the true source of our sins but focused on the flesh, the outward acts or words the could be seen and heard and testified by human witnesses. Jesus magnified the law to include the thoughts and intents of the heart, the true source of sin. The law focused on the effect of sin but the spirit focused on the cause, the heart. Human witnesses under the law could not know the thoughts and intents of another person. The True cause of sin was never addressed under the law, therefore all under the law are under a curse of death. The saints, who have agape, fulfill the intent of the law with agape because agape fulfills the law but works of the law fulfilled nothing, made nothing perfect.

GOD has given judgement of humanity to Jesus. This judgment is based on two fronts; those who had the Holy Spirit and those who did not. The church is being judged now by how much they have submitted to the will of GOD. The unconverted are judged by the law and found guilty and suffer death. The hope of the church is the first resurrection to impeccability and immortality. The hope of the unconverted is currently unknown to them, but it is the millennium and second resurrection, in each the very first opportunity is given to understand the truth of GOD, to repent, yield to the spirit and live.

The works mentioned are either that of the law or that of the spirit. The laws works are filthy rags. Under the spirit the works are GODS in you, we become GODS workmanship and HE who began this good work in you is able to finish it in the day of Christ. It is GOD who works in you both to will and to do HIS good pleasure.

The law is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The law is the knowledge of sin. Adam ate from the law tree and partially gained this knowledge but later GOD codified it in the TEN COMMANDMENTS. This gave humanity the opportunity to prove they could be righteous without GOD. UNDER THE LAW A PERSON IS ON THEIR OWN TO KEEP IT, GOD IS NOT WITH THEM. The law was also to serve as a deterrent to sin because people feared being killed for breaking the law.

Law keepers today are still eating from the law tree, still thinking they are righteous but are actually under the curse of the law, death. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law . Both Jews and Gentiles can sin and before the law was given to Israel men yet died due to the sin of Adam. Therefore with or without the knowledge of the law everyone, except the saints, were under the law and condemned to death. The elect saints do not frustrate law and grace but understand each as GOD intended .

 

[Outcast]

Thank you for your response, brother.

I think it is important to fill a gap between the time of the The Law and the time of the New Covenant. For most people, it is too complex to see how there could be anyone spending eternity with God when they lived in the time of the Old Covenant, because there was no way to be "saved" under the terms of The Law. Each of them, and we, are/were sinners.

The prophecy given in Genesis of how Yahweh would defeat the Serpent and in the prophecy of the New Covenant given in Isaiah as well - in the minds of the people of Israel - were a certainty. We call it "preexistence." For them, the Messiah already existed - even though He did not in reality.

Would you say that they were "saved" by their faith?

 

[LeeB]

Hebrews 11 is the faith chapter and writes about the ancient saints beginning with Adams son Able, called righteous Able. This is the imputed righteousness by faith, the same is true of all the others listed.

Israel under the law had no understanding of the concept of imputed righteousness because they were law keepers. Over time ideas developed about the afterlife. During the time of Jesus, some thought that at death they went to “Abrahams bosom”. Jesus used this false idea in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Today Jewish belief about the afterlife is a variety of different ideas

The old covenant times produced some Israelites that GOD did call and choose but the vast majority of Israel was carnal. This is the case with law keepers today, they are carnal. What is Gentile did not have exposure to the law but yet we’re all under the law. How can all people be sinners if they are not under the law, sin is the transgression of the law. The new covenant was preached long before the old covenant was given. Both covenants existed in the garden of Eden, symbolized by the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the tree of life. Adam chose the old covenant but it would take time to raise up Israel to codify the knowledge of good and evil into the Ten Commandments. For by the law is the KNOWLEDGE of sin. Pentecost was not the beginning of the church but a transformation process to include the gentiles in the promises given to Abraham. Spiritual Israel contains people, saints, from before and after Christ. This is the Israel of GOD. The 144000.

It is impossible to understand this information unless we have the Holy Spirit. Law and grace are vastly different but the law, being only a shadow , looks like light to the law keepers. Christ being the true substance, the body that casts the shadow, is denied by law keepers because they cannot understand that all the law was just a shadow that symbolically pointed to Christ. Law keepers follow shadows not Christ.

 

[Outcast]

This caught my attention: The old covenant times produced some Israelites that GOD did call and choose but the vast majority of Israel was carnal. This is the case with law keepers today, they are carnal. What is Gentile did not have exposure to the law but yet we’re all under the law. How can all people be sinners if they are not under the law, sin is the transgression of the law.

I think many so-called Christian Churches today are also "law keepers." After all, they are the major movement initiators to place The Tend Commandments for public attention all over government parks and buildings as if those commandments will save this nation.

Individual churches have their Statements of Faith and require anyone who leads, teaches, of gets baptized into "that church" must agree with them. Of course, that can be seen as the evidence that they, as well, are carnal.

 

[LeeB]

Ever wonder why King David was not stoned to death for adultery as the law demands . Psalm 51:11 David was a Christian and not under the law, having access to mercy, forgiveness, grace. “Thy Holy Spirit take not from me I pray”. If David had been under the law then, Hebrews 10:28 Deuteronomy 17:6

Walter says Jesus and the Apostles and the church kept the Sabbath and annual holy days. In the first century if you wanted to preach the gospel to Jews you would go to where the Jews congregate, not to keep any day but to preach the gospel. Walter points out what Paul said in , Acts 18:21 KJV Why didn’t the brethren go with Paul? Paul knew that he would go to Jerusalem and get into trouble and appeal to Caesar then go to Rome to preach the gospel. Acts 19:21 Acts 20:22,23 Acts 21:10,11,12 Therefore see that Paul had no intention to keep the feast as Walter thinks but Paul was using the occasion to get arrested, appeal to Caesar and go to Rome.

 

[Outcast]

The people of Israel created a problem by demanding a king.

A king in Israel would pretty much do whatever he wanted, and Israel had good kings and it had bad kings - and none of them were stoned that I am aware of. I question the idea of David not being "under the law." The kings made their own laws and judgements because they claimed total authority over the people. They could be godless sinners or evil and never stoned by the people for it. Punishing kings was a God-level task. Often, Yahweh would send in another king and nation to render punishment.

David, however, was punished by Yahweh for his sin on Earth as revealed in 2 Samuel in chapters 11 and 12. It is valid that David was not a "typical king."

The message that we can infer from this story is one of mercy and restoration rather than death and destruction. This message would not exist for us had Yahweh killed him. As he was the all-powerful king, the people could not.

 

[LeeB]

anyone with the holy spirit is not under the law. The same faith of Abraham was applied to David as well as you and I and all Christians. No one can be under both covenants at the same time. GOD would not not allow Adam to eat the fruit of both trees. The law tree and the life tree produced two different fruits; life and death, Adam chose death the law kills us all

The people of Israel created a problem by demanding a king.

A king in Israel would pretty much do whatever he wanted, and Israel had good kings and it had bad kings - and none of them were stoned that I am aware of. I question the idea of David not being "under the law." The kings made their own laws and judgements because they claimed total authority over the people. They could be godless sinners or evil and never stoned by the people for it. Punishing kings was a God-level task. Often, Yahweh would send in another king and nation to render punishment.

David, however, was punished by Yahweh for his sin on Earth as revealed in 2 Samuel in chapters 11 and 12. It is valid that David was not a "typical king."

The message that we can infer from this story is one of mercy and restoration rather than death and destruction. This message would not exist for us had Yahweh killed him. As he was the all-powerful king, the people could not.

The point is that YAHWEH did not kill David because he was under grace that provides forgiveness of sin. YAHWEH forgave David as David truly repented as asked for mercy and forgiveness in Psalm 51.

 

[Outcast]

anyone with the holy spirit is not under the law. The same faith of Abraham was applied to David as well as you and I and all Christians. No one can be under both covenants at the same time. GOD would not not allow Adam to eat the fruit of both trees. The law tree and the life tree produced two different fruits; life and death, Adam chose death the law kills us all

The point is that YAHWEH did not kill David because he was under grace that provides forgiveness of sin. YAHWEH forgave David as David truly repented as asked for mercy and forgiveness in Psalm 51.

I do understand your view, brothers. I can't reconcile it with the rest of scripture since the vail was not torn until the crucifixion of Yeshua. While Yahweh showed mercy to David, He also provided protection (another mercy) for many other Israelites as well - who were under The Law. I'm fairly certain that Lot was also a sinner, but he was saved from death as well. Actually, many times, the Israelites were granted protection because they were His people.

I can see that David was a sinner after God's own heart. I can't see that he was under the New Covenant.

 

[LeeB]

Anyone having the Holy Spirit is under the new covenant. Abraham was never under the law, he was a gentile when GOD called him. He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with HIM. Hebrews 11 tells us today that theses ancient saints before Christ will be in the first resurrection with us. Only the church is in the first resurrection, the 144000. No one can eat the fruit of both of those trees in Eden at the same time, GOD will not allow it. Moses and David were born at a time when the law was revealed just as Christ was , just as you and I were, but none of them were under that law. In the case of Moses and David if they were under the law then they never had any knowledge or understanding of spiritual things. David was indeed under the new covenant, read his psalms, they contain spiritual wisdom that was used by the Apostles to preach the gospel. David knew the gospel, David knew that GOD promised him that his descendant would be the messiah. All the prophets had the Holy Spirit and spoke of Christ. The new covenant was active before the old was given. I submit that many of these ancient saints knew more than I do as I read their writings the spirit of GOD must show me the truth contained in them. To be truly righteous in GODS eyes one must have the imputed righteousness from GOD because of faith. Able and Lot both were called righteous for this reason and all the ancient saints because of having the Holy Spirit were righteous. Faith and law are opposites, law and grace are opposites, the two covenants are opposites. The torn vail was to expose the failure of the old covenant to provide salvation. You and I never saw Jesus in the flesh and neither did any of the ancient Christians but we are all saved by the same faith. Matthew 27:52 indicates there were saints before Christ. In Romans 11 Paul explains about the olive tree; the root supports you and I , the root is all the Christians recorded in Hebrews 11, the branches are former gentiles like you and I grafted in while the carnal Israelites under the law and unbelieving were broken off. Pentecost was not the beginning of the church, it was the beginning of the calling of you and I to be grafted into the olive tree. The calling of the Gentiles. The last (gentiles) will be first and the first (carnal Israel) will be last. Matthew 20:16. It was the gentiles that gladly heard Jesus. The hearts of carnal Israelites have been hardened until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, grafted into the olive tree. Romans 11:25 Colossians 1:26,27 Ephesians 3:2,3,4,5,6
The first Christian was righteous Able, of the 144000 he was #1. I do not know who the #144000 will be. All these are the church, the called out ones, the redeemed of the earth. Is not the church composed of both former Jews and Gentiles ?

 

[LeeB]

No one under the law can repent of their sins. Hebrews 10:28 It is GOD who grants repentance and provides protection to us from the laws death penalty because Christ took the penalty of sin upon himself. A righteous man died for the unrighteous. David and others listed in Hebrews 11 knew these things but saw them afar off. Moses desired a better resurrection, Abraham a city whose builder and maker is GOD. They, without us, you and I , will be made perfect together. It does not matter what time it is, faith is not based on time. David wrote Psalm 51, a very powerful psalm of repentance because of his sins concerning Bathsheba. David had the love for GOD the same as you and I. Deuteronomy 6:5 was something that carnal Israel could not do because the required love is from the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:25,26,27,28 It continues, Acts 2:29,30,31,32,33,34 Psalm 18:1,2,24,30,31,35,46,49,50 This man, King David, knew things a thousand years before Christ that I have only recently learned . The same is true of others. Is not the church built on the foundation of the prophets and the Apostles. The Apostles considered the prophets their brethren. James 5:10 Hebrews 11:32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40
There is more available than our eyes can see and they are revealed to us as it was revealed to them.