General CHRISTIAN

What does the word Christian mean ? The Oxfords dictionary of languages says; relating to or professing Christianity or it’s teachings. What are some of the teachings of Christianity ? The concept of one GOD, the belief in Jesus as son of GOD and messiah, the belief in the death and resurrection of Jesus, forgiveness , repentance, and living one’s life empowered by GODS love to love GOD and neighbor .

People that abide by and have faith in these teachings are called Christians. When a group of Christians assemble together this is called Church. Early on the church was referred to as “the way” , the church was first called Christians in Antioch. Acts 11:26 The word “church” is the Greek word “ekllesia” that means CALLED OUT ONES that describes being called out of this world spiritually but not physically.

To get hung up on a name can cause us to forget what the name is based upon. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. If two peoples living at different times both believe in the same things does it matter what name they go by ? Jesus said, before Abraham was I am. What do you think Jesus meant by that ? Well, even though Jesus was not yet born the smell of him was in the nostrils of certain people that YAHWEH called out, ekklesia, a people for HIS name. Even though these people never saw or heard Jesus was irrelevant because they did see, afar off and rejoiced to “see” the day of Christ. Matthew 13:17 John 8:56 The rose by any other name smelled as sweet. Do you think it would be out of line to call Abraham a Christian ?


We Christians today are in the same faith Abraham had and not only Abraham but many others that lived before Jesus was even born but yet had faith that he would be. It’s easy for us to look back on Jesus and read in the scriptures all about what those ancient saints had absolutely no proof about, only the faith to believe. Again, Matthew 13:17 How about this, 1 Peter 1:10,11,12 or. Hebrews 11:13

We are along with these ancient saints will receive the fulfillment of the promises together in the first resurrection. Only the church, the ekllesia, is in the first resurrection. Only Christians are in the first resurrection. Should we deny these people simply because of a name that was not applied to them, or should we take the meaning of what that name implies and see that it did apply to them ? To deny the ancient saints equality with us in the Holy Spirit is to call stink weed a rose. A Christian by any other name is still an ekllesia, a called out one, a part of the body or olive tree. The ancient saints are the root of the olive tree, the church, and we must not forget , Romans 11:18 I thank YAHWEH for them.

 

[Outcast]

While you present a view that is interesting, I still have questions the application of the covenants in question.

I believe that it has been said often that one cannot be under the Law AND be under the New Covenant. All of those who believed in the coming Messiah after the time of Moses were part of the group of the Old Covenant and were to follow The Law. Therefore, by simple deduction, they cannot be called Christian. They did not follow Christ, because they followed the Old Covenant laws.

Based on your own claim in previous posts, they cannot be under both. The Apostle Paul agreed? I think so.

Ga 3:23–28 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[LeeB]

While you present a view that is interesting, I still have questions the application of the covenants in question.

I believe that it has been said often that one cannot be under the Law AND be under the New Covenant. All of those who believed in the coming Messiah after the time of Moses were part of the group of the Old Covenant and were to follow The Law. Therefore, by simple deduction, they cannot be called Christian. They did not follow Christ, because they followed the Old Covenant laws.

Based on your own claim in previous posts, they cannot be under both. The Apostle Paul agreed? I think so.

Ga 3:23–28 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

If you closely examine the writings of David in the Psalms his comments many times show that he did not observe the law for righteousness. David was a converted man and king of a carnal nation and he was made responsible by GOD to enforce the Torah in Israel. Two different people came from Abraham; carnal Israel and spiritual Israel or the world and the church. David was similar to Paul. Paul was all things to all men, 1 Corinthians 9:19,20,21,22,23 David did what he was commanded to do for carnal Israel. David said to his son Solomon, 1 Chronicles 28:9 , think about these words. A person born during the time of the law but having the Holy Spirit would fulfill the law with agape just as we do today and at the same time tell the people who are under the law to keep it, Jesus did this, he told the people who were under the law to keep the law in the hope the schoolmaster would teach them. The rich young ruler; Luke 18:18,19,20,21,22 The verse to focus on is Luke 18:22 This rich young ruler though he was righteous because he kept the Ten Commandments but he lacked something. That something was Jesus. So you see even Jesus taught people to keep the law and even said, Matthew 5:19 This is about fulfilling the intent of the law with agape, GODS agape at work in us and the works of the law ended.
There is a lot of understanding in only a few verses.

 

[Outcast]

If you closely examine the writings of David in the Psalms his comments many times show that he did not observe the law for righteousness. David was a converted man and king of a carnal nation and he was made responsible by GOD to enforce the Torah in Israel. Two different people came from Abraham; carnal Israel and spiritual Israel or the world and the church. David was similar to Paul. Paul was all things to all men, 1 Corinthians 9:19,20,21,22,23 David did what he was commanded to do for carnal Israel. David said to his son Solomon, 1 Chronicles 28:9 , think about these words. A person born during the time of the law but having the Holy Spirit would fulfill the law with agape just as we do today and at the same time tell the people who are under the law to keep it, Jesus did this, he told the people who were under the law to keep the law in the hope the schoolmaster would teach them. The rich young ruler; Luke 18:18,19,20,21,22 The verse to focus on is Luke 18:22 This rich young ruler though he was righteous because he kept the Ten Commandments but he lacked something. That something was Jesus. So you see even Jesus taught people to keep the law and even said, Matthew 5:19 This is about fulfilling the intent of the law with agape, GODS agape at work in us and the works of the law ended.
There is a lot of understanding in only a few verses.

I agree that the Beatitudes leaves a lot to unpack. The Rich Young Ruler had the Law - but lacked mercy and compassion. He kept his greed. He attempted to obey God via the Law while keeping his wealth. He referred to Yeshua as "teacher," but he did not learn.

Note that, at this point of the lesson, Yeshua was not yet crucified - so the New Covenant had not yet come to pass. It would be wrong for Yeshua to NOT tell people to keep the Law, because the New Covenant wasn't in effect yet.

The words of Yeshua lays out the checklist for us in the Beatitudes to identify ourselves as obedient or disobedient along with announcing the rewards for obedience.

Teaching a new way of living to a people who have lived a different way all their lives takes time and patience. This teaching was to prepare them for the covenant to come.

 

[LeeB]

When Jesus was on Earth he was not a Levitical priest but was after the order of Melchizedek, a priest who lived long before the law was given. The thing the rich young ruler lacked was the proper priesthood, that of Christ, a priesthood free from the law. This is why Jesus said, follow me.
The gospel Jesus preached gave two commandments of agape that Jesus said were the greatest commandments of all, that means greater than the Ten Commandments. Just as the Apostle Paul explained that the law was his own righteousness and not the righteousness of GOD by faith, this rich young ruler was in that filthy rags condition. He needed to give up the law to follow Christ just as you and I do. Jesus was the new covenant personified and preached the good news of that covenant. Jesus said to repent and believe the gospel, well under the law repentance was not available, a sinner died without mercy.
Jesus was offering this rich young ruler discipleship, “come and follow me”. Paul valued his past life in the law as dung that he could gain Christ but the rich young ruler could not make that commitment. Jesus said that he was greater than the temple, lord of the sabbath, greater than Solomon. The woman caught in the act of adultery was by the law condemned to death but Christ did not adhere to the law but showed mercy, something else that did not have. The law condemns the whole world but Jesus did not come to condemn world. John 3:17 The one who accuses is Moses. John 5:45 Jesus openly spoke against the sacrifices and provided a new sabbath for the people of GOD, a rest from physical works of the law to having GOD working in us by HIS agape.
This same gospel, Paul said, was preached unto Abraham . Galatians 3:8
Abraham marriage to Sara, his half sister, was condemned by the law.
GOD call us, the church, the sons of GOD, even though we are not yet in the kingdom, GOD has a book of life that has recorded in it the names of all the saints since the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8 Daniel 12:1 Matthew 25:34 Ephesians 1:4 Psalm 69:28 GOD sees things eternally, speaks eternally and acts eternally. GOD for-new and predestinated everything , Romans 8:29 GOD did this outside of time.