General Christ Jesus, the Son of God, existing in the form of God.

[oneapart]

That is how I see it - it is not clear to them because they treat the Trinity as a fact vs. an interpretation or construct.

I actually believe Christ existed in the form of God, before creation, and created all things for his Father at his Father's will.

I believe that when you're a god and you have a child, it is a god.

I believe that truth existed before humans.

I believe in unity.

You cannot have unity if it's a trinity.

I also believe there are others out there like me who take the scripture at face value.

I believe Christ created me, and I believe he was god, and was human, and I am humble enough to say all I know is that he left earth as flesh and bones per record, and that Paul knew a man who went to third heaven to paradise living...

But I still don't believe that a Father is his Son, or mix up no beginning and no ending with Alpha and Omega.

Are you sure they believe in the trinity? Could we swap timestamps for episodes?

I was just going to watch them all again. I'll keep an eye out.

Because I would be interested in finding people to make media with...

...perhaps you're wrong and they're like me?

 

[oneapart]

Hi again @benadam1974, I wanted to respond further to this comment,

But even if you take it as a past tense Paul is talking about the human Christ (Phil 2.5), not some preexistent, before heretofore unknown, person in the biblical account.

...as wait to hear what you point to as the main verb to which the present active participle is referring to...

"existing" (present active participle) is in the present for whatever the main verb is:

—a present tense participle indicates action occurring at the same time was the action of the main verb—

"(did not) consider" is the main verb = aorist indicative middle

Active Indicative is a verbal action that is completed in the past.

Middle Ancient Greek had a set of voice forms that English does not. We call these the middle voice. When the Greek middle voice verb form is used, the subject of the verb is seen as acting upon itself or for its own benefit.

5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

Now—that having been decided, says the voice over narrator... what did our star do?

7but emptied Himself,

... uh ... what does that mean?! ...

having taken the form of a servant,

oh. gotchya. So you mean ...

having been made in the likeness of men.

...he was no longer existing in the form of god?

So which came first?


I fear you might need to replace "Christ Jesus" with "Son of God" before you can read it and understand.

In this study, I learned that hypo+arxo means literally "began under".

 

[benadam1974]

Hi again @benadam1974, I wanted to respond further to this comment,



...as wait to hear what you point to as the main verb to which the present active participle is referring to...




5Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus:

6Who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider to be equal with God something to be grasped,

Now—that having been decided, says the voice over narrator... what did our star do?

7but emptied Himself,

... uh ... what does that mean?! ...

having taken the form of a servant,

oh. gotchya. So you mean ...

having been made in the likeness of men.

...he was no longer existing in the form of god?

So which came first?


I fear you might need to replace "Christ Jesus" with "Son of God" before you can read it and understand.

The subject is the historical "Christ, Jesus" of v.5.
And the teaching is to have the same "mindset" of Jesus.
It's impossible to see how we can emulate some preexistent, non-human person.
For more see:

 

[Shelley]

Here's where it says so, @Shelley.







I think this one depends on perspective.

Jesus might argue,



So what has Jesus "seen with the Father", and speaks about, in this context?



We end up recalling John 1:1-9 detailing the Word as the Light before he became flesh.



So that's all pre-existence with John 1 dating him back to Genesis 1.

We might think of other things Christ told us that I consider his first-hand knowledge of God:



I think speaking of his Father's house is an example of "I speak that which I have seen with the Father”. John 8:38

Do you?

Another example,



Do you believe Jesus speaking of the angels in heaven at Matt 22:30 here is speaking from what he has seen?



And as for "what kind" he is... I don't think he's a creature, since he's not created, but born of God, who is spirit:





I believe Christ was born of Spirit and knows from first-hand experience as the pre-existing son of God all about what is like for "everyone" who is "born of the spirit".

And doesn't it sound just like the description of the Holy Spirit when it arrived as tongues of fire anointing the Jewish Christians up in that upper room just after Jesus died, don't you think? Obviously, the holy spirit is spirit.

Because "God is spirit" I believe existing in the form of God means existing in spirit form.

I believe Jesus is talking about his first-hand experience with what it's like in spirit form, born of the spirit.

Of course, he emptied himself of the spirit form of God to become man. Phil 2:5-7

He was the son of God, he wasn't created like Adam.

I believe he was sent to focus on Salvation which is Revelation, not Creation which is Genesis.

I believe that's why he spends almost all of his time talking about the future not his past.



You're right. So, if you do not have to believe Jesus created anything because Jesus didn't say so himself...



However, scripture says so. Paul's letter to the Corinthians (above) says the same as John's testimony or witness (below).

I'm not going to witness against them:



...and...



It consistently says all things were made through him.

If the Father did all the creating, scripture says it was still all done through and in Christ his son for his Father.

Each time you see "God" in the old testament, switch over and see if it's plural or singular.

Is it just the Father, or is it elohim?



He was the morphe, or form, of God before he was the form, or morphe, of Man as Mary's child.



Really good point @Shelley. Obviously, angels just showed up on the earth, and they were even mistaken for men!

But if he just appeared as the Son of God on earth would you accept him as a "son of man"?

The prophesied son of man would have to be born of mankind, right? So that's why "that route".

Adam was created human—the son of man was born human:

Adam is Son of God in the form of human, and Christ the son of God in the form of God—spirit—and human.



Nope. While Paul shows a living human can be snatched up or caught up to heaven, Jesus was not a human before he was born as a human. As the son of God, he was the same as God, god.



He existed in the form of God, and God is a spirit. So he was too.



You're right @Shelley. He wasn't his Father. He was his Father's seed, his son. He's the only (mono) genes Son of God.

So yes, he is "god" #2, because he is "god" of his father who is "god".

The son of God or Christ is the image of the invisible God, verses say.

He is the "god" with "God" that said "Let us make man in our image" so that "god" IS plural.

Because his Father is God, being his Father's son meant he was also god. Hence John 5:18.

So it is that he was the Son of God before he was sent to become the Son of Man.



As the "son of God" he too was "god" just like when as the "son of Man" he was a man.

God is spirit so when Christ was in the form of his Father, God, he was in the form of spirit, because god is spirit.

God is a spirit, and angels are also spirit, but Christ and his Father, while they are spirits, are not angels.

Very nice explanations Angela. I enjoyed reading them a lot Good food for thought. Appreciate the time you took and I will go through them in more detail when I have time. Love and hugs, sister in Christ!