Agape is the love of GOD. The love, this agape, is what is needed to fulfill the intent of the law. Agape is described in 1 Corinthians 13:1-8 , it does no harm, never fails, takes no pleasure in evil, rejoices in the truth and many more GODLY qualities. Jesus had agape, John 15:9 Jesus loved with the SAME LOVE as his GOD . Look up Strongs #G25 , the word means agape. Agape is righteousness in action, agape is a verb requiring more than just words but also deeds to back up the claim of possessing it. Jesus had the Spirit of his GOD in full measure, the FATHER dwelled in him and he in the FATHER and they were one in agape. This is why Jesus could say, “ I and my FATHER are one”. To say Jesus could have sinned is blasphemy assassinating the GODLY character his GOD created him with. We are to be recreated in the image of Christ who the FATHER created in HIS image, the image of agape and righteousness. Jesus was the first and only being directly created this way, no angel or any other human ever was agape and righteousness from his mothers womb. The saints are now in the process of being recreated, changed, to be like the man Jesus, but not achieving this until born into the kingdom. We are to be perfect as our heavenly FATHER, Matthew 5:48 If Jesus was not perfect himself then how could he command us to be ? GOD is agape, Jesus was and is agape and we hope to become agape. If Christ was not agape then neither can we be.
General AGAPE PROVES THAT JESUS WAS INCAPABLE OF SIN
- Thread starter LeeB
- Start date
This is why I can't reconcile the God of the Old Testament to the God of Jesus. Either man ascribed acts to Yahweh/Jehovah that were not his (because they don't support this Agape characteristic among many others) or Yahweh/Jehovah is not the God of Jesus.
Jesus power comes from him choosing agape - he always had a choice. To say he was incapable I think is s stretch and portrays him like a super hero - and way out of reach for us to model after. Instead he shows us how we can choose agape over other negative (sinful?) emotions that harm others and even ourself. The more we choose love the more we are like Jesus.
Hence the greatest command according to Jesus being to love God and neighbor. (Matthew 22:36-40; Mark 12:28-34; Luke 10:25-28)
We also have the Father's spirit dwelling in us and yet we miss the mark of choosing agape often. But it is what we should be constantly aiming for if we are a follower of Christ. Jesus shows us how as a fellow human. He shows us what is possible.
Jesus power comes from him choosing agape - he always had a choice. To say he was incapable I think is s stretch and portrays him like a super hero - and way out of reach for us to model after. Instead he shows us how we can choose agape over other negative (sinful?) emotions that harm others and even ourself. The more we choose love the more we are like Jesus.
Hence the greatest command according to Jesus being to love God and neighbor. (Matthew 22:36-40; Mark 12:28-34; Luke 10:25-28)
We also have the Father's spirit dwelling in us and yet we miss the mark of choosing agape often. But it is what we should be constantly aiming for if we are a follower of Christ. Jesus shows us how as a fellow human. He shows us what is possible.
The same way that I as a mother command my kids to behave. I'm not perfect nor do I always "behave" but as someone in authority over them it is perfectly understandable for me to "command" or "remind" them on what is expected.
Christ mastered agape - it wasn't a super power given to him. We can master it too. The more we are in harmony with holy spirit to more we can be like Christ. We need to pray and meditate to get on same wave length of holy spirit - our inner spirit - to master agape and be like Christ. That is how I interpret it at any rate.
Thanks for the interesting topic.
I also started a related post on original sin pertaining to this statement which seems to be speaking to "original sin" i.e. we are born imperfect which I don't agree with.
To be created in the image of his GOD, Christ was agape in the flesh. Jesus said plainly that he loved (agape) us in the same way his FATHER (agape) him. Knowing that agape cannot sin therefore Jesus could not sin. We are not being rerceated to be potential sinners but rather incapable of sin. None of us will ever reach the stature and fullness of Christ as long as we are still in the flesh, we must be changed, we must acquire the divine nature of GOD that Jesus demonstrated to us. In the interim while we wait for the kingdom we are under the program of grace, the forgiveness of sin because of our faith in Christs sacrifice. The butchering of James 1:13 by a well know person is responsible for the lie that Jesus could have sinned. This man says, “GOD cannot be tempted but Jesus was tempted therefore Jesus was not GOD.” The verse was cut short because it included, “with evil”. Jesus proved in the Devils attempt to tempt Jesus to do evil that Jesus would not do evil and could not be tempted to do evil. What the devil tempted Jesus with was unsuccessful. This was not just making a good choice, it was because GOD created HIS son with the Character or divine nature of of HIMSELF. Hebrews 1:3 examine this verse in a Interlinear translation especially the word EXPRESS , it is Strongs G5481 , Jesus was an exact copy of GODS character of divine agape and righteousness. Someone who is capable of sin remains so all their life so how then could the life of someone like that be the sacrifice for all sin ? In the kingdom of GOD sin nor its potential can exist yet this Jesus entered that kingdom, how if he was a potential sinner ? Jesus came to reveal the FATHER and said if you see me you have seen the FATHER , is the FATHER a potential sinner ? Jesus commanded us to be perfect but he wasn’t perfect himself. You are missing so many things about Jesus. GOD swore oaths to both Abraham and David that from them Christ would be born and would be the messiah and inherit the throne of the universe. Do you think GOD would gamble our salvation on a son who could possibly sin and make GOD a liar ? You and I have to be as perfect as GOD ALMIGHTY, Matthew 5:48 Jesus was the demonstration to us of that perfection. Yes the goal is high and otherwise impossible but with GOD all things are possible. Jesus was indeed a spiritual super hero . To not see him in that light is to not really know him.
He is a super hero to me because he overcame what all other humans could not - true love and he did not miss the mark as the rest of us. Yes he had the super power of holy spirit but so do we. He learned how to understand the holy spirit within and translate that to real godly thinking and action. But he did it with all his humanity - not from special tool or abilities given to him that we don't have. I believe we all have these super powers now within us - we need to follow Jesus words and teachings (not mans) to do what he did and more.
I say stop waiting to be transformed by some future event but instead transform yourself now - develop your super powers we have already been gifted with! I'm convinced love is the key to unlocking these super powers.
I say stop waiting to be transformed by some future event but instead transform yourself now - develop your super powers we have already been gifted with! I'm convinced love is the key to unlocking these super powers.
Jesus has the spirit in fullness we on a portion. John 3:34 I do not deny that Jesus was human, that he was a soul; the union of body and human spirit, However he was one with GOD, he was born with th divine nature of GOD that we will not have until we are in the kingdom. 2 Peter 1:4 the divine nature Peter wrote about is a promise, we do not yet have it but Jesus did. Scriptures that say, “in him was no sin” , “he was separate from sinners” , that he was the express image of GOD or had the character of GOD. Do you personally know someone who has these super powers and more ? As far as being transformed, Paul said that he had not yet attained, meaning reaching the stature and fullness of Christ, Philippians 3:12,13,14,15 You and I and the Apostle Paul and all Christians must put on Incorruption and immorality at the first resurrection. This is the promise Peter mentioned, partaking of the divine nature. You and I were not born with the divine nature but acquire it , Jesus was born with the divine nature, the first born of many brethren. Perfection is not achieved until we are born into the kingdom of GOD. Philippians 3:12 I am a sinner, Paul was a sinner, you are a sinner and all Christians are sinners, 1 John 1:8 , we all will need grace until the day we die. Jesus was without sin, in him was no sin, he was separate from sinners. Jesus was this way because his FATHER created him that way.
Isaiah 48:15 Isaiah 42:1,6 Matthew 12:18 Acts 10:38 John 3:34 Hebrews 1:9 Psalm 89:26,27,28 Isaiah 49:1-9 1 Peter 2:22
If all humans have these super powers then any one of us could have been the messiah ? Why was there a virgin birth ? Was GOD the real FATHER of Jesus ? The virgin birth spirituality separated Christ from Adam and Adams sin that passed to us all. Jesus is called GODS righteous servant. Isaiah 42:4,6 Jesus shall not fail. Every prophecy about Jesus is positive, none are negative and there is nothing said anywhere in scripture that Christ was a potential sinner. The false belief that Jesus could have sinned produces in those who believe it a false sense of not having to rise to the spiritual level of Jesus by lowering the standards . They tear Christ down to build themselves up rather than seeing they need to rise to the high standard of the stature and fullness of Christ. All humanity was spiritually defiled by sin and condemned to death. The human spirit of Jesus was not infected with this sin due to the virgin birth. GOD ALMIGHTY was the FATHER of Jesus Christ thus Jesus was totally separated from us who are sinners. There was no sin in Jesus because he was born of GOD . In Jesus was no sin, none, sin did not exist in the Christ. GOD created Christ in this way after HIS own image and likeness as a great light that entered the world whereas Adam was only a shadow an illusion without substance but Jesus was the substance. Did Jesus require a mediator to communicate with GOD, did Jesus need a savior to die for him and forgive him for his imperfect spiritual condition of being a potential sinner ? Sin, nor it’s potential, can exist in the kingdom of GOD , yet as you say a potential sinner ascended to GODS right hand. The man Jesus was far above us spiritually and we must be transformed to be in the image that he himself was created in, we must become like GOD, we must become righteous and agape. Jesus demonstrated, exampled the divine nature to us that his FATHER created him with. GOD is the one who will work in us to bear fruit to HIM and is able to complete our perfection when,? IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS. We will never match the agape and righteousness of Christ until our change comes in the day of the lord Jesus. Philippians 1:6 Romans 8:28,29,30 1 Corinthians 1:8,9 Hebrews 12:2 1 Peter 5:10 2 Corinthians 1:21,22 Jude 1:24,25
If all humans have these super powers then any one of us could have been the messiah ? Why was there a virgin birth ? Was GOD the real FATHER of Jesus ? The virgin birth spirituality separated Christ from Adam and Adams sin that passed to us all. Jesus is called GODS righteous servant. Isaiah 42:4,6 Jesus shall not fail. Every prophecy about Jesus is positive, none are negative and there is nothing said anywhere in scripture that Christ was a potential sinner. The false belief that Jesus could have sinned produces in those who believe it a false sense of not having to rise to the spiritual level of Jesus by lowering the standards . They tear Christ down to build themselves up rather than seeing they need to rise to the high standard of the stature and fullness of Christ. All humanity was spiritually defiled by sin and condemned to death. The human spirit of Jesus was not infected with this sin due to the virgin birth. GOD ALMIGHTY was the FATHER of Jesus Christ thus Jesus was totally separated from us who are sinners. There was no sin in Jesus because he was born of GOD . In Jesus was no sin, none, sin did not exist in the Christ. GOD created Christ in this way after HIS own image and likeness as a great light that entered the world whereas Adam was only a shadow an illusion without substance but Jesus was the substance. Did Jesus require a mediator to communicate with GOD, did Jesus need a savior to die for him and forgive him for his imperfect spiritual condition of being a potential sinner ? Sin, nor it’s potential, can exist in the kingdom of GOD , yet as you say a potential sinner ascended to GODS right hand. The man Jesus was far above us spiritually and we must be transformed to be in the image that he himself was created in, we must become like GOD, we must become righteous and agape. Jesus demonstrated, exampled the divine nature to us that his FATHER created him with. GOD is the one who will work in us to bear fruit to HIM and is able to complete our perfection when,? IN THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS. We will never match the agape and righteousness of Christ until our change comes in the day of the lord Jesus. Philippians 1:6 Romans 8:28,29,30 1 Corinthians 1:8,9 Hebrews 12:2 1 Peter 5:10 2 Corinthians 1:21,22 Jude 1:24,25
Jesus had no super powers at all. Every word he spoke and action he took was under the direction of GOD. By himself Jesus could do nothing. John 5:19,30 John 8:28,29 John 12:49,50 John 15:10 John 7:16,17,18 If correctly understood John 5:19 is proof that Jesus was incapable of sin because whatever GOD does Jesus did too. The FATHER dwelled in the son and the son dwelled in the FATHER.
Isaiah 42:1 GOD was constantly with Jesus in direct contact without a mediator. Do any of you on this forum think that they have the same measure of the Holy Spirit that Christ had ? Read about this man who came to reveal the FATHER to us. This revealing was in how Christ lived his life, in righteousness and agape. If GOD did become a man as the lie of the trinity says then that man would have been Jesus Christ. Jesus was far above all of humanity spiritually and due to his perfection, his impeccability, his life was precious in GODS sight and valued so highly that if Christ gave his life it would be more than what would have been required to pay for the sins of all humanity past, present and future. GOD cannot purchase people to HIMSELF by using the life of a potential sinner.
Isaiah 42:1 GOD was constantly with Jesus in direct contact without a mediator. Do any of you on this forum think that they have the same measure of the Holy Spirit that Christ had ? Read about this man who came to reveal the FATHER to us. This revealing was in how Christ lived his life, in righteousness and agape. If GOD did become a man as the lie of the trinity says then that man would have been Jesus Christ. Jesus was far above all of humanity spiritually and due to his perfection, his impeccability, his life was precious in GODS sight and valued so highly that if Christ gave his life it would be more than what would have been required to pay for the sins of all humanity past, present and future. GOD cannot purchase people to HIMSELF by using the life of a potential sinner.
While this debate goes on, I'll share what I have come to know.
Both John the Baptist and Yeshua were "flesh and blood" children.
Scripture shows that they, however, were different - and were assigned different roles from the beginning.
Lk 1:13–17 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”
Lk 1:31–35 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?” And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God
Lk 1:41–44 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
Note that John was to be "filled with the Spirit" but Yeshua had the "fullness of the Spirit." While both were flesh and blood, they did not have the same spirit of everyone else. They had announced roles to fill.
Are we to think that Yahweh was rolling the dice in hope that both of them will choose to serve Him and that both would succeed? I believe not.
It is worth pondering.....
Both John the Baptist and Yeshua were "flesh and blood" children.
Scripture shows that they, however, were different - and were assigned different roles from the beginning.
Lk 1:13–17 But the angel said to him, “Do not be afraid, Zechariah, for your prayer has been heard, and your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you shall call his name John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”
Lk 1:31–35 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.” And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?” And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God
Lk 1:41–44 And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the baby leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting came to my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.
Note that John was to be "filled with the Spirit" but Yeshua had the "fullness of the Spirit." While both were flesh and blood, they did not have the same spirit of everyone else. They had announced roles to fill.
Are we to think that Yahweh was rolling the dice in hope that both of them will choose to serve Him and that both would succeed? I believe not.
It is worth pondering.....
The transformation does begin at conversion but does not reach completion until our change comes, when this mortal puts on immortality and corruptible puts on incorruption. Unless and until this change happens then we are mortal and corruptible. We ,at best , before the change, are only shadow images of Christ totally dependent on GOD for everything, we are sinners under grace that need changed. This is why we should not think more of ourselves than what we are. It is the humble that GOD shows favor, James 4:6 We should not be like a child that tries to be an adult but realize that at present we are children and adulthood doesn’t happen until that change comes, until that day we need to remember, 1 Corinthians 10:12 2 Peter 3:17