General What did Yeshua do?

Outcast

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Dec 5, 2023
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After recent posts/comments, it looks like we may be ignoring that our Bibles have said. Since we are at this forum, I am interested in how the would offer a summary of you thoughts on this passage. I realize that some don't see it the same way I do, so join the discussion and let me know your summary of this, please.

Heb 8:1–10:10 Now the point in what we are saying is this: we have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven, a minister in the holy places, in the true tent that the Lord set up, not man. For every high priest is appointed to offer gifts and sacrifices; thus it is necessary for this priest also to have something to offer. Now if he were on earth, he would not be a priest at all, since there are priests who offer gifts according to the law. They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.” But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says:

“Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord:

I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”

In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Now even the first covenant had regulations for worship and an earthly place of holiness. For a tent was prepared, the first section, in which were the lampstand and the table and the bread of the Presence. It is called the Holy Place. Behind the second curtain was a second section called the Most Holy Place, having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, in which was a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s staff that budded, and the tablets of the covenant. Above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. These preparations having thus been made, the priests go regularly into the first section, performing their ritual duties, but into the second only the high priest goes, and he but once a year, and not without taking blood, which he offers for himself and for the unintentional sins of the people. By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first section is still standing (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper, but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption. For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh, how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.
Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant. For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established. For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood. For when every commandment of the law had been declared by Moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, “This is the blood of the covenant that God commanded for you.” And in the same way he sprinkled with the blood both the tent and all the vessels used in worship. Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.

Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’ ”

When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
Well, I guess writing a summary of the events the events that took place is too much to hope for.

I know many people who claim to "know God" but prove that they don't. How are we to understand God's promise?
I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me,

How are we affected by: In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

We see in these passages: By this the Holy Spirit indicates that the way into the holy places is not yet opened as long as the first section is still standing (which is symbolic for the present age). According to this arrangement, gifts and sacrifices are offered that cannot perfect the conscience of the worshiper,

So, how do we get our consciences clean? We are told in 1 Peter 3:21:

Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

and

how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

If we seek to know the timing of the the establishment of this new Covenant, we see in these passages: the tense of the word show us -

But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come,

If we allow ourselves to believe that we are already saved. perhaps we should note:

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

Maybe we should take seriously the numerous passages that tell us we must endure to the end in order to be "saved." After all there are at least 100 scripture verses that tell us that.

The last passages establish a "good news" result of what Yeshua did - if we endure to the end:


For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said,

“Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’ ”

When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


So, since The Law saves no one, those who claim that it is in effect for all, are condemning those who are deceived.

Galatians 3:24-25 ESV
So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,

An important note should be added here because we usually fail to note that there were people who were chosen by Yahweh because of their faith and obedience, and some were empowered by Yahweh to fulfill the purpose He gave them. Think miracles and prophets.

Things changed when Yeshua fulfilled the Law. However, He also gave commandments from His Father.

Jn 14:15–17 If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.

Now, most people I know in churches are almost afraid to acknowledge the idea that we have to be obedient to the things Yeshua commanded - they will be accused of "salvation by works." Of course, we find in the book of James, our works are simply the manifestation of our love for Yahweh and His Son. We obey because of our love for God and not to earn a pass to our salvation.

But, there really IS a work that is from God:

Jn 6:28–29 Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Any thought on what I posted here?
 
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In him whom he has sent. It is indeed known, that throughout the years, Jesus has sent various emissaries, just as he promised,

29Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous. 30And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then,g the measure of the sin of your fathers. 33You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?

34Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

Lament over Jerusalem
(Luke 13:31–35)

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look, your house is left to you desolate.h 39For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’i

Note, that nowhere does this say, “believe in whom I send”. At any rate, any messenger from Jesus must lead to Jesus himself, not towards said messenger, or even the church. The last I checked,

20But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. e 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
But at the end, is probably the last Elijah, since after him, we will finally see Jesus, just like with John the Baptist.
 
In him whom he has sent. It is indeed known, that throughout the years, Jesus has sent various emissaries, just as he promised,
Are you referring to John 6:29 here?

This verse applies to Jesus, as He is the one who was sent.

So, my question is your statement that: "that throughout the years, Jesus has sent various emissaries, just as he promised,"

May I ask, throughout which years did Jesus send various emissaries?

Yeah, my brain is not as effective as it once was; so that leaves me thinking that I am missing something here.
 
34Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.
This is a very interesting passage. If we don't keep in mind who Yeshua was speaking for, we'd miss an important aspect of the meaning. He said that the words he spoke came from His Father.

Jn 12:49–50 For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.

Yet, I think that there are some who know the truth but won't admit it. I personally believe that it is sin to pretend one thing while believing another.

Jn 12:41–43 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him. Nevertheless, many even of the authorities believed in him, but for fear of the Pharisees they did not confess it, so that they would not be put out of the synagogue; for they loved the glory that comes from man more than the glory that comes from God.
We would be amazed if we knew the truth about the people who serve as ministers but see their jobs more important than the truth. Some of them have advanced seminary degrees and know the truth, but speak otherwise.

Lk 11:48–52 Therefore also the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and persecute,’ so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who perished between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, it will be required of this generation. Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter yourselves, and you hindered those who were entering.”

There were many who were injured, tortured or killed for refusing to accept the lies that sprang up in "religion" and many were so intimidated that they remain silent. It takes a serious love for Yahweh and His Son to be willing to be shunned by those who have beliefs that are socially acceptable within "their church." It still happens today, but in the U.S., not so much. People's personal secrets do not get spoken, and in most online forums, speaking against the the church's "statement of faiths" is not permitted.

Since those who truly are a child of Yahweh learn from His spirit, then those who instead believe in what anyone else posts from false "proof texts" without using all of scripture don't seem to depend on Yahweh for truth. It is a rocky road to believe God instead of our favorite commentaries.

We should never be surprised that many are called but few are chosen.

Sorry, I was rambling. I'll stop now. May Yahweh bless your search.
 
That is in contention. It depends on which tradition you come from. I don’t personally aver anyone, since people will reject them due to their flaws. Even the ones I idolized in my youth turned out to be more flawed as I learned about them, like Martin Luther. He exposed some of the practices of Christendom at the time. At any rate, the chapter does excoriate such. But as you can see, they will be rejected, and won’t complete the work, since “blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” is not fully realized. I only mentioned this because not one of them fully restores the church, Christendom or Christianity for that matter. But the Elijah to come is to restore all things, whatever that means. In some ways, I’m just as in the dark as you are, albeit that I believe Jesus promised to send those teachers and wise men. Were they send only when the end was near, or were they sent on the interim?
 
That is in contention. It depends on which tradition you come from. I don’t personally aver anyone, since people will reject them due to their flaws. Even the ones I idolized in my youth turned out to be more flawed as I learned about them, like Martin Luther. He exposed some of the practices of Christendom at the time. At any rate, the chapter does excoriate such. But as you can see, they will be rejected, and won’t complete the work, since “blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord” is not fully realized. I only mentioned this because not one of them fully restores the church, Christendom or Christianity for that matter. But the Elijah to come is to restore all things, whatever that means. In some ways, I’m just as in the dark as you are, albeit that I believe Jesus promised to send those teachers and wise men. Were they send only when the end was near, or were they sent on the interim?
My sister, Yeshua sent only the Apostles. Yahweh sent many who were tortured and killed thousands of years in the past - who also we tortured and killed.

Have you considered that Yeshua said that John the Baptist was Elijah? If that was so, can we say that Elijah was already on earth to prepare the way for Yeshua? And, now should we expect him again? No matter the name on the person who comes as a witness, that person or people may not call themselves Elijah.

Please help me by showing where scripture says that we still expect Elijah.
Thanks,

Outcast
 
To continue my thinking here, Malachi was written 400 years before the birth of Yeshua. We see in scripture that John the Baptist was in his mother's womb at the same time Yeshua was. If we read Luke 1, verses 5-45, we see that John the Baptist was also according to Yahweh's spirit. It is obvious to me that this was not a "natural birth."

I think it is important to note "you shall call his name John. And you will have joy and gladness, and many will rejoice at his birth, for he will be great before the Lord. And he must not drink wine or strong drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb. And he will turn many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God, and he will go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just, to make ready for the Lord a people prepared.”

Both pregnancies we by the spirit of Yahweh.

And now, when the end of days approaches, things will occur according to the spirit of Yahweh as well. If any man arrives claiming to be Elijah, he won't be from Yahweh.

In the New Covenant, we will learn by the words of the spirit of Yahweh and Yeshua. We have been told that the converted followers of Yeshua will not be taught by man but by every word that comes from God.

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

Hebrews 8:11 “And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen, And everyone his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ For all will know Me, From the least to the greatest of them.

John 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Now we read in Revelation 11:3–8 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. And if anyone would harm them, fire pours from their mouth and consumes their foes. If anyone would harm them, this is how he is doomed to be killed. They have the power to shut the sky, that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague, as often as they desire. And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.
You may have never noted that Revelation says that there will be two men, it simply says "witnesses" and also "two olive trees and two lampstands."

Also note that the two witnesses will be clothes in "sackcloth." It is
a sign of mourning. The term "sakkos" refers to a coarse, rough fabric made from goat's hair, traditionally used for making sacks. In biblical contexts, it is often associated with mourning, repentance, and humility. Wearing sackcloth was a physical expression of inner sorrow or penitence.

Is it not logical to see these two witnesses and not being man who will teach them, but instead, they are the words of Yahweh and Yeshua. I know that there are some who phrase them as being "the Law and the Prophets."

What do you think?
 
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John 15

26When the Advocatec comes, whom I will send to you from the Father—the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father—He will testify about Me. 27And you also must testify, because you have been with Me from the beginning.

John 16

1“I have told you these things so that you will not fall away. 2They will put you out of the synagogues. In fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God. 3They will do these things because they have not known the Father or Me.4But I have told you these things so that when their hour comes, you will remember that I told you about them. I did not tell you these things from the beginning, because I was with you.

The Promise of the Holy Spirit
(John 14:15–26)

5Now, however, I am going to Him who sent Me; yet none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’6Instead, your hearts are filled with sorrow because I have told you these things. 7But I tell you the truth, it is for your benefit that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocatea will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.

8And when He comes, He will convict the world in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:9in regard to sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will no longer see Me; 11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned.

12I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it.

John 17

6I have revealed Your name to those You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours; You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.7Now they know that everything You have given Me comes from You. 8For I have given them the words You gave Me, and they have received them. They knew with certainty that I came from You, and they believed that You sent Me.

9I ask on their behalf. I do not ask on behalf of the world, but on behalf of those You have given Me; for they are Yours. 10All I have is Yours, and all You have is Mine; and in them I have been glorified. 11I will no longer be in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to You.

15I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one.c16They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 17Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth. 18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world. 19For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.

Prayer for All Believers

20I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

In some sense, the entire body of believers is sent as messengers/emissaries, even unto the far future. But are those disciples at the caliber of what an Elijah should be? Note that Jesus also said, “there are more things I wish to tell you but you cannot bear them now (John 16:12)” If so, when can we or anyone bear what Jesus will have to say?

14He will glorify Me by taking from what is Mine and disclosing it to you. 15Everything that belongs to the Father is Mine. That is why I said that the Spirit will take from what is Mine and disclose it to you.
 
I do enjoy reading the "High Priestly Prayer." There are many things that can be discussed within those words. However, I once read the prayer to a small group, and one of then group went out of her mind. She did not want to comprehend verses 20 and 21.

As for thinking that the "entire body of believers is sent as messengers/emissaries," I have difficulty with saying that. Paul points out that the body of believers have specific duties as they are in the body but in different parts.

Eph 4:11–16 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

I really think that, while he have many churches, we don't have many that have reached "mature manhood." My experience tells me that most people don't want to deal with anyone who has reached that point. I dare say that most of us cannot describe someone who has reached maturity, because we are all made different. Some might think a softspoken but friendly person must have reached maturity. Others might think a "hellfire and brimstone" preacher really has reached the peak. Someone who can quote scripture all day long may not be a true Christian either.

The biggest problem we face is that we don't compare a person with what we have read about Yeshua. We compare them to ourselves or others.

Until we learn to trust God for our honest understanding, we will be grasping at straws. This world has not had an Apostle since the death of the last of "The Twelve." I think I am good with that statement because I believe these:

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.

Matthew 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Deuteronomy 4:29 But from there you will seek Yahweh and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jeremiah 33:3 Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known.

Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.

We must be willing to search ourselves to see if we, indeed, have the spirit of Yahweh within us.

Php 2:12–16 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure. Do all things without grumbling or disputing, that you may be blameless and innocent, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, holding fast to the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I may be proud that I did not run in vain or labor in vain.

If we are His, He will teach us. He has already given each of us another person(S) with whom we can discuss scripture and share understandings. That is a pathway to seeking to know what God says.
 
What was the objection to John 17:20-21? It’s a prayer for future believers. Now John 15:20-21 and John 16:20-21 are pertaining to persecution and suffering, but what’s wrong with John 17?

We do have different gifts but we are nonetheless sent.

John 17

18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world.

John 20

21Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.

But at any rate, his believers must love one another, bringing God’s message of love and approval, that the world may believe that God sent Jesus.

In another sense, we also are the letter of Christ himself.

2 Corinthians 3

1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2You yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
 
Now I don’t know in which years Jesus sends his disciples, only that through their testimony, people come to believe. Now we can believe such process ended with the apostles, or it could have continued through the thick and thin of the schisms and upheavals of Christendom.
 
What was the objection to John 17:20-21? It’s a prayer for future believers. Now John 15:20-21 and John 16:20-21 are pertaining to persecution and suffering, but what’s wrong with John 17?

We do have different gifts but we are nonetheless sent.

John 17

18As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world.

John 20

21Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.

But at any rate, his believers must love one another, bringing God’s message of love and approval, that the world may believe that God sent Jesus.

In another sense, we also are the letter of Christ himself.

2 Corinthians 3

1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2You yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
 
John 17 stems from the period we call "the Last Supper." Yeshua was speaking to His disciples. They were the audience being addressed. We, however, are not the ones being spoken to - we get to see what Yeshua said about them.

A person who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity does not like some of the statements Yeshua made in His Prayer to Yahweh.

1.Jn 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

2. Verse 6 I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

3. Verse 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours (specifically said He was not praying for the world to be protected)

4. Verse 11 Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

5. 17-18 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. (so they go from disciple to Apostle)

6. 20-23 I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
The trinitarian argument is that they know that Yeshua is God because of His statement that He and Yahweh "are one." Now to think that Yeshua wills that His disciples also be "one" with himself and His Father.

As for who was sent? John 17 is about the Apostles. They had different personalities and strengths. The message they were to carry was all that Yeshua told them, and I regard Paul's message as being a description of the various ways they would do it.

As you listed:

Jn 20:19–23 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

I think it be noticeable that Yeshua, who was born with the fullness of God's spirit, shared that spirit before telling them that they have the power to forgive sins.

And finally:

Mt 28:16–20 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Scripture search reveals that this is the only passage with the use of "the Trinity" for baptism. All of the Apostles past this point baptized in Yeshua's name only. A dive through the Catholic Encyclopedia shows a lengthy story about how the trinitarian formula came to be.

2 Co 2:16–17 Who is sufficient for these things? For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

Your last reference, from Apostle Paul, shows that he says God made his group sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, and do not need a letter of recommendation to do what they are doing. If reads as if their commission's validity is written on the tablet of human hearts. That sounds a lot like "you will know them by their fruits."

That would seem to show that all these denominations, by their own separatist congregations in disagreement with each other, prove that they are not of God. Their only fruit is to show that they don't know the truth of God.

So, the logical mind says that they all lack a commission from God to preach the Gospel. They are not sent by Christ.
 
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John 17 stems from the period we call "the Last Supper." Yeshua was speaking to His disciples. They were the audience being addressed. We, however, are not the ones being spoken to - we get to see what Yeshua said about them.

A person who believes in the doctrine of the Trinity does not like some of the statements Yeshua made in His Prayer to Yahweh.

1.Jn 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

2. Verse 6 I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

3. Verse 9 I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours (specifically said He was not praying for the world to be protected)

4. Verse 11 Holy Father, keep them in your name, which you have given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

5. 17-18 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. As you sent me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. (so they go from disciple to Apostle)

6. 20-23 I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me. The glory that you have given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that you sent me and loved them even as you loved me.
The trinitarian argument is that they know that Yeshua is God because of His statement that He and Yahweh "are one." Now to think that Yeshua wills that His disciples also be "one" with himself and His Father.

As for who was sent? John 17 is about the Apostles. They had different personalities and strengths. The message they were to carry was all that Yeshua told them, and I regard Paul's message as being a description of the various ways they would do it.

As you listed:

Jn 20:19–23 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

I think it be noticeable that Yeshua, who was born with the fullness of God's spirit, shared that spirit before telling them that they have the power to forgive sins.

And finally:

Mt 28:16–20 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Scripture search reveals that this is the only passage with the use of "the Trinity" for baptism. All of the Apostles past this point baptized in Yeshua's name only. A dive through the Catholic Encyclopedia shows a lengthy story about how the trinitarian formula came to be.

2 Co 2:16–17 Who is sufficient for these things? For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

Your last reference, from Apostle Paul, shows that he says God made his group sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, and do not need a letter of recommendation to do what they are doing. If reads as if their commission's validity is written on the tablet of human hearts. That sounds a lot like "you will know them by their fruits."

That would seem to show that all these denominations, by their own separatist congregations in disagreement with each other, prove that they are not of God. Their only fruit is to show that they don't know the truth of God.

So, the logical mind says that they all lack a commission from God to preach the Gospel. They are not sent by Christ.
Good point. But is that spot empty in the current age? Or is a hidden remnant always in the background? Yes, organizations and groups can falter and become corrupt, but does that invalidate all, even individuals? Even during Elijah’s time, God hid 7000 men who were loyal and won’t bend their knees to Ba’al. Were they together under one roof, or were they scattered in hiding, since the ruling majority are under Ahab and Jezebel?
 
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Good point. But is that spot empty in the current age? Or is a hidden remnant always in the background? Yes, organizations and groups can falter and become corrupt, but does that invalidate all, even individuals? Even during Elijah’s time, God hid 7000 men who were loyal and won’t bend their knees to Ba’al. Were they together under one roof, or were they scattered in hiding, since the ruling majority are under Ahab and Jezebel?
Well, while I am not sure of your question, I'll attempt to address what it might actually be.

There are those people who truly seek truth and righteousness, but because of how they are perceived in churches, they tend to be shunned. Of course, that may be a bit inaccurate, because those who are given truth by God's spirit will avoid churches who teach things that Yahweh revealed to be untrue. These individuals may eventually find each other and form there own small groups who discuss scripture without an organized tax-free "church." In their small groups, what they think the see in scripture may be a valid view or they may miss a point, but they wait on God to clear it up for them. Some meet only on forums such as this one. Usually, in my honest opinion, God establishes His chosen to find each other so that truth can be shared.

Back in the time of Ahab and Jezebel, I don't know enough to answer.

I believe Yahweh calls those whom he chooses for His plan to come to pass. We can know through scripture that He has an initial group of 144,000 as revealed, but His plan does not end there. One day, everyone who will dwell on the New Earth will know truth. There will also be those who refuse to accept truth. I don't want to be in that group.
 
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The story never ends where our fathers have told us. Even Sodom and Samaria did not end at their destruction and dissolution.

Ezekiel 16

48As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did as you and your daughters have done. 49Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and complacent; they did not help the poor and needy. 50Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them, as you have seen.c

51Furthermore, Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have multiplied your abominations beyond theirs, and all the abominations you have committed have made your sisters appear righteous. 52So now you must bear your disgrace, since you have brought justification for your sisters. For they appear more righteous than you, because your sins were more vile than theirs. So you too must bear your shame and disgrace, since you have made your sisters appear righteous.

53But I will restore Sodom and her daughters from captivity,d as well as Samaria and her daughters. And I will restore you along with them.54So you will bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you did to comfort them.

55And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to their former state. You and your daughters will also return to your former state.
 
Matthew 24:31 Romans 11:5 Romans 9:27 Isaiah 1:9 Jeremiah 31:7
Acts 15:17 LSV “remnant”
 
The story never ends where our fathers have told us. Even Sodom and Samaria did not end at their destruction and dissolution.

Ezekiel 16

48As surely as I live, declares the Lord GOD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did as you and your daughters have done. 49Now this was the iniquity of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed, and complacent; they did not help the poor and needy. 50Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them, as you have seen.c

51Furthermore, Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have multiplied your abominations beyond theirs, and all the abominations you have committed have made your sisters appear righteous. 52So now you must bear your disgrace, since you have brought justification for your sisters. For they appear more righteous than you, because your sins were more vile than theirs. So you too must bear your shame and disgrace, since you have made your sisters appear righteous.

53But I will restore Sodom and her daughters from captivity,d as well as Samaria and her daughters. And I will restore you along with them.54So you will bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you did to comfort them.

55And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to their former state. You and your daughters will also return to your former state.
I am grateful that Yahweh's plan - from the beginning - was to cleanse the people and establish a new Earth filled with grateful people that love Him. But, He also tells us that there will be those who still deny Him.

Reading the rest of Chapter 16 reveals a lot more.

 
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