General Transfiguration
- Thread starter Lori Jane
- Start date
I need to do more research on this as there are two belief systems.
One is that it was a vision as Moses and Elijah could not have been resurrected first before Jesus. Heb 11:13,39 mentions that they did not receive the things promised. Peter also understood it to be a vision (2Peter 1:17,18)
Also the word vision is mentioned at Mat 17:9 is hoʹra·ma (Greek) which is the same word mentioned in Acts 7:31
However, some say it was literal as 2Kings 2:11,12 mentions that Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven and that Moses received a special resurrection because in Jude 9 Michael the Archangel and Satan were disputing over the body of Moses.
Twice God attested to Jesus being his Son (Mat 3:17 and John 12:28) were literal events.
So which one is the correct one? Any comments/research welcome.
One is that it was a vision as Moses and Elijah could not have been resurrected first before Jesus. Heb 11:13,39 mentions that they did not receive the things promised. Peter also understood it to be a vision (2Peter 1:17,18)
Also the word vision is mentioned at Mat 17:9 is hoʹra·ma (Greek) which is the same word mentioned in Acts 7:31
However, some say it was literal as 2Kings 2:11,12 mentions that Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven and that Moses received a special resurrection because in Jude 9 Michael the Archangel and Satan were disputing over the body of Moses.
Twice God attested to Jesus being his Son (Mat 3:17 and John 12:28) were literal events.
So which one is the correct one? Any comments/research welcome.
Matthew 17:9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Do not tell anyone about this vision until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.
Since Jesus stated it was a vision then to me it is a vision. I am too stupid to figure it out on my own. In context of the Jews and what they were expecting the transfiguration would strengthen their faith after Jesus resurrection that he was indeed the Messiah. The Jews were familiar with the prophecy in Mal 4:5,6 and Isa. 40:1-5 and were expecting a "preparing of the way" for the Messiah. Some thought Elijah would return as a visible sign of the Messiah and they did not recognize John the Baptist as the one to prepare the way. Jesus explained it in Matthew 17:10-13.
10 The disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?
11 Jesus replied, “Elijah does indeed come, and he will restore all things. 12But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him whatever they wished. In the same way, the Son of Man will suffer at their hands.
13Then the disciples understood that He was speaking to them about John the Baptist.
What I appreciate about Jesus is when the disciples asked what he meant by something he would just simply tell them. The truth is simple and beautiful.
Jesus during his ministry referred to Moses John 5:45- 47
45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, in whom you have put your hope. 46 If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?
In John 6: 32-33 32 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the TRUE bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.
Moses was the mediator of the Law Covenant. Brought the laws to the Israelites from Mt Sinai. Jesus brought the new covenant by means of his blood and He is our Mediator. The transfiguration vision would help Jews to put everything together with the help of the Holy Spirit and and they would be able to exercise their faith in Jesus as the way the truth and the life.
To add a bit that I am researching...The two witnesses in Revelation 11:1-6 appear to be Moses and Elijah they are identified in verse 6.
1Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers there. 2But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months. 3And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These witnesses are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed. 6These witnesses have power to shut the sky so that no rain will fall during the days of their prophecy, and power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish.
The 1260 days and 42 months seem to correspond to Daniel but unsure if it refers to Jesus 3 1/2 year ministry because it says it would be trampled? Not sure going to read some commentaries. Now let's review the evidence!
Matthew 18:6 Jesus stated:
But if he hear thee not, take with thee one or two more, that at the mouth
of two witnesses or three every word may be established.
Deut 17:6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but he shall not be executed on the testimony of a lone witness.
So just to summarize let's see how the 2 witness "rule" really applies. Pharisees make rules Jesus did not! This is a formula to establish evidence. Jews were familiar with the need for 2-3 witnesses to establish evidence and in Deuteronomy it was in cases where someone would be put to death. This evidence is for the opposite - Jesus being resurrected to life- one that would be different then his human body but still visible and understandable to the disciples that saw him transfigured. On a side note, remember Moses face "glowed" when he came down from Sinai. When the disciples related to the Jews the transfiguration there were not only 3 disciples that saw the transfiguration but there were 2 witnesses in the vision standing and talking to Jesus. These 2 visionary witnesses were vivid in Jews minds as prophecies and prophetic actions that pointed to the Messiah. Their failure to recognize these witnesses Moses and Elijah while Jesus was alive cut them to the heart at Pentecost. I don't know about you but I don't know how they felt but I was cut to the heart when I found out I was not recognizing and listening to Jesus. I was listening to a "governing body" instead. Pain and tears but appreciation for the pain our 1st century brothers and sisters must of felt. We had just as much evidence as they did we have the bible.
The transfiguration evidence can strengthen our faith not only in Jesus' resurrection but the kind of resurrection "body" we may have. Who else will be there? Moses and Elijah after they are part of the "cloud of witnesses" that are awaiting their resurrections along with us! Hebrews 12:1...Bring the rain!! It's so dry down here...
Now I'm not saying the above research is completely correct. I just wanted to share. Please feel free to correct, add, subtract.
Since Jesus stated it was a vision then to me it is a vision. I am too stupid to figure it out on my own. In context of the Jews and what they were expecting the transfiguration would strengthen their faith after Jesus resurrection that he was indeed the Messiah. The Jews were familiar with the prophecy in Mal 4:5,6 and Isa. 40:1-5 and were expecting a "preparing of the way" for the Messiah. Some thought Elijah would return as a visible sign of the Messiah and they did not recognize John the Baptist as the one to prepare the way. Jesus explained it in Matthew 17:10-13.
10 The disciples asked Him, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?
11 Jesus replied, “Elijah does indeed come, and he will restore all things. 12But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him whatever they wished. In the same way, the Son of Man will suffer at their hands.
13Then the disciples understood that He was speaking to them about John the Baptist.
What I appreciate about Jesus is when the disciples asked what he meant by something he would just simply tell them. The truth is simple and beautiful.
Jesus during his ministry referred to Moses John 5:45- 47
45 Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, in whom you have put your hope. 46 If you had believed Moses, you would believe Me, because he wrote about Me. 47But since you do not believe what he wrote, how will you believe what I say?
In John 6: 32-33 32 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I tell you, it was not Moses who gave you the bread from heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the TRUE bread from heaven. 33For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.
Moses was the mediator of the Law Covenant. Brought the laws to the Israelites from Mt Sinai. Jesus brought the new covenant by means of his blood and He is our Mediator. The transfiguration vision would help Jews to put everything together with the help of the Holy Spirit and and they would be able to exercise their faith in Jesus as the way the truth and the life.
To add a bit that I am researching...The two witnesses in Revelation 11:1-6 appear to be Moses and Elijah they are identified in verse 6.
1Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the number of worshipers there. 2But exclude the courtyard outside the temple. Do not measure it, because it has been given over to the nations, and they will trample the holy city for 42 months. 3And I will empower my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
4These witnesses are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouths and devours their enemies. In this way, anyone who wants to harm them must be killed. 6These witnesses have power to shut the sky so that no rain will fall during the days of their prophecy, and power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they wish.
The 1260 days and 42 months seem to correspond to Daniel but unsure if it refers to Jesus 3 1/2 year ministry because it says it would be trampled? Not sure going to read some commentaries. Now let's review the evidence!
Matthew 18:6 Jesus stated:
But if he hear thee not, take with thee one or two more, that at the mouth
of two witnesses or three every word may be established.
Deut 17:6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a man shall be put to death, but he shall not be executed on the testimony of a lone witness.
So just to summarize let's see how the 2 witness "rule" really applies. Pharisees make rules Jesus did not! This is a formula to establish evidence. Jews were familiar with the need for 2-3 witnesses to establish evidence and in Deuteronomy it was in cases where someone would be put to death. This evidence is for the opposite - Jesus being resurrected to life- one that would be different then his human body but still visible and understandable to the disciples that saw him transfigured. On a side note, remember Moses face "glowed" when he came down from Sinai. When the disciples related to the Jews the transfiguration there were not only 3 disciples that saw the transfiguration but there were 2 witnesses in the vision standing and talking to Jesus. These 2 visionary witnesses were vivid in Jews minds as prophecies and prophetic actions that pointed to the Messiah. Their failure to recognize these witnesses Moses and Elijah while Jesus was alive cut them to the heart at Pentecost. I don't know about you but I don't know how they felt but I was cut to the heart when I found out I was not recognizing and listening to Jesus. I was listening to a "governing body" instead. Pain and tears but appreciation for the pain our 1st century brothers and sisters must of felt. We had just as much evidence as they did we have the bible.
The transfiguration evidence can strengthen our faith not only in Jesus' resurrection but the kind of resurrection "body" we may have. Who else will be there? Moses and Elijah after they are part of the "cloud of witnesses" that are awaiting their resurrections along with us! Hebrews 12:1...Bring the rain!! It's so dry down here...
Now I'm not saying the above research is completely correct. I just wanted to share. Please feel free to correct, add, subtract.