God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment…
Psalm 82:1
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God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment…
Psalm 82:1
I noticed during my Bible reading some time ago that Bibles and commentaries say that Christ quoted Psalm 82:6 in John 10:34
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
What I find strange is that Christ refers to “the LAW”, not to “the book of Psalms” or “the Psalms” as He does in Luke 20:42 and 24:44.
In Luke 24:44 he divided Scripture in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms. When Jesus quoted some scripture we can be assured it was accurate.
Psalm 82:6 seems to be a quotation as well: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalm 82:6 (written by Asaf) is - as I see it - a quotation of the same Scriptures Christ referred to.
So where did they refer to? Did God call people “gods” (Elohim) in the Law?
1. Exodus 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [Elohim]; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
The context shows that these Elohim were judges who handled a small matter (See Ex. 18:26)
2. Exodus 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges [Elohim], to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods.
Judges were called Elohim by God because they spoke in the name of God on the basis of Gods Law.
Ex. 18:15-16 And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God: When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.
The context of Psalm 82 also shows this Psalm speaks about judges, who “judge unjustly” (vs 2). They will be held accountable (vs 7). God, the Judge of the earth will take over and justice will be restored! (Vs. 8; 83:18)
I believe Christ refers in John 10:34 to the books of Moses (exodus 21:6; 22:8). His argument is: my Father called judges (imperfect humans) gods [Elohim], because they spoke in His Name.
God sanctified me and sent me into the world, I don’t claim to be Elohim, I claim to be the Son of God. How can that be blasphemy?
Petunia
John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
What I find strange is that Christ refers to “the LAW”, not to “the book of Psalms” or “the Psalms” as He does in Luke 20:42 and 24:44.
In Luke 24:44 he divided Scripture in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms. When Jesus quoted some scripture we can be assured it was accurate.
Psalm 82:6 seems to be a quotation as well: I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
Psalm 82:6 (written by Asaf) is - as I see it - a quotation of the same Scriptures Christ referred to.
So where did they refer to? Did God call people “gods” (Elohim) in the Law?
1. Exodus 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges [Elohim]; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
The context shows that these Elohim were judges who handled a small matter (See Ex. 18:26)
2. Exodus 22:8 If the thief be not found, then the master of the house shall be brought unto the judges [Elohim], to see whether he have put his hand unto his neighbour’s goods.
Judges were called Elohim by God because they spoke in the name of God on the basis of Gods Law.
Ex. 18:15-16 And Moses said unto his father in law, Because the people come unto me to enquire of God: When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws.
The context of Psalm 82 also shows this Psalm speaks about judges, who “judge unjustly” (vs 2). They will be held accountable (vs 7). God, the Judge of the earth will take over and justice will be restored! (Vs. 8; 83:18)
I believe Christ refers in John 10:34 to the books of Moses (exodus 21:6; 22:8). His argument is: my Father called judges (imperfect humans) gods [Elohim], because they spoke in His Name.
God sanctified me and sent me into the world, I don’t claim to be Elohim, I claim to be the Son of God. How can that be blasphemy?
Petunia
I never heard of this in jwBorg, or I can't remember.
Psalms 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD? 7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
In another translation it says: Psalms 89:6 For who in the skies can be compared to Yahweh?
Who among the sons of the heavenly beings is like Yahweh, 7 a very awesome God in the council of the holy ones,
to be feared above all those who are around him?
It speaks about an assembly or counsel, council in heaven.
About Jesus: 1 John 2:1 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.
Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us. A son is given to us; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor , Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus is called a Son, but also called a Counselor.
There are more Counselors and Sons (Psalms 89:6) in the heavens I guess, maybe also Mediators for other worlds. Why not?
Psalms 89:6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD? 7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
In another translation it says: Psalms 89:6 For who in the skies can be compared to Yahweh?
Who among the sons of the heavenly beings is like Yahweh, 7 a very awesome God in the council of the holy ones,
to be feared above all those who are around him?
It speaks about an assembly or counsel, council in heaven.
About Jesus: 1 John 2:1 My little children, I write these things to you so that you may not sin. If anyone sins, we have a Counselor with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.
Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us. A son is given to us; and the government will be on his shoulders. His name will be called Wonderful Counselor , Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Jesus is called a Son, but also called a Counselor.
There are more Counselors and Sons (Psalms 89:6) in the heavens I guess, maybe also Mediators for other worlds. Why not?
Sometime the word Jew was used to refer to all Israelites as sometimes the word law was used to refer to all that was in the law, Psalms and prophets. Think about GODS originally stated goal, let us make man after our image and according to our likeness, Jesus was the first to be created in this way. Jesus was not of this creation but the firstborn of a new creation I call Genesis 2, the second Adam and the church, his bride, the second Eve. 1 Corinthians 2:9 Jesus was the true beginning of Genesis 2 , Revelation 3:14 John 17:16
“the word law was used to refer to all that was in the law, Psalms and prophets”
Do you have an example of that? (Preferably of Christ)
I agree with the other things you’re saying, but I can’t see what the connection is with my reasoning.
If you think my reasoning is false, can you please pinpoint where you think I go wrong?
Petunia
Hey Petunia,Hi Diana,
Are you comparing Psalm 82 with Psalm 89?
I agree that Psalm 89 is about a heavenly counsil.
But I don’t think Psalm 82 is.
Petunia
I think it is about the same thing.
Diana
John 7:49 , John 12:34 , John 15:25 , Romans 3:19 , 1 Corinthians 14:21 examples of usage of the word law. The Church is to be recreated into the image of the glorified Christ, 2 Corinthians 3:18 , Romans 8:29 GOD created an image of HIMSELF, HIS son the Christ . Hebrews 1:3. Jesus was the first born of many brethren, born into the kingdom of GOD. What Jesus is today we will become at his return. All of carnal humanity came from Adam but all of spiritual humanity is from the second Adam. We have been adopted by GOD through Christ. Jesus was the beginning of a new creation not of flesh but of spirit.
I
I will read it again from 82-89 and come back to you.
So what scripture do you think Jesus was referring to in John 10:34 and what was his reasoning?
Hey Petunia,
I think it is about the same thing.
Diana
I will read it again from 82-89 and come back to you.
So what scripture do you think Jesus was referring to in John 10:34 and what was his reasoning?
John 15:25 is indeed a very clear example.
So I admit: part of my reasoning isn’t holding up.
I still think though that Asaf and Jesus were referring to exodus, to the judges who were called Elohim.
Exodus 4:16 — New Living Translation (NLT)
16 Aaron will be your spokesman to the people. He will be your mouthpiece, and you will stand in the place of God for him, telling him what to say.
It is the destiny of the saints to rule and reign with Christ to be joint heirs with him. Micah 4:4,5 describes this . The people the saints rule over look to them as Elohim, a judge, a mighty one, Strongs H430. These people walk in the name of their Elohim but the saints walk in the name of the Lord GOD. Psalm 45:7 and Hebrews 1:9 Jesus had a GOD, god had a GOD, ELOHIM HAD A GOD. The text makes clear the oil of gladness is the Holy Spirit and the one receiving abundance of the oil, the Spirit, is Jesus and the one doing the anointing is GOD the FATHER.
This helps to under Psalm 82 and Psalm 89. As Jesus is the image of the invisible GOD the saints are the image of Jesus. Exodus 4:16 the nation of Israel was a shadow of the reality that is the reward of the saints. We are familiar how certain biblical characters were types of Christ like Moses, Joshua and Joseph. Here in Exodus 4:16 Moses and Aaron are types of GOD the FATHER and Elohim Jesus. If the saints are being transformed into an image of Jesus who GOD the FATHER commanded the angels to worship and Jesus was also worshipped by men, so will the glorified saints as Elohim, gods, be worshipped by the people they rule and reign over in the millennium. The first Adam and all of his descendants never achieved what GOD stated, “ Let us make man after our image and according to our likeness “, Jesus did and the saints will .
The truth of GOD is not conveniently written and spelled out rather it is scattered from Genesis to Revelation. Isaiah 28:9,10,11,12,13 The truth of GOD is hidden from those GOD does not want to know at this time. This is why Jesus spoke in parables. Matthew 13:10,11,12,13,14,15
DianaS, I believe that your eyes see and your ears hear and many desire to know what GOD has given to you but have not received. Matthew 13:16 The saints have always been taught by GOD but in these last days are taught by GOD through Christ. John 6:45 , Isaiah 54:13 , 1 Thessalonians 4:9 Everything you and all the saints have come to know and understand comes from GOD through Jesus Christ. We are blessed.
DianaS, I believe that your eyes see and your ears hear and many desire to know what GOD has given to you but have not received. Matthew 13:16 The saints have always been taught by GOD but in these last days are taught by GOD through Christ. John 6:45 , Isaiah 54:13 , 1 Thessalonians 4:9 Everything you and all the saints have come to know and understand comes from GOD through Jesus Christ. We are blessed.
At first glance ex. 4:16 (7:1) is a valid option. How ever God said to Moses - 1 person - that he would be god (Aaron would be his prophet).
Both John 10:34 and Psalm 82:6 say that God spoke to more than on person (you plural).
If Jesus quoted ex. 7:1 there’s also a problem with Moses being god, Aaron the prophet and Jesus the prophet greater than Moses.
It doesn’t add up.
So - for now - I hold on to my previous statement: Jesus and Asaf quoted ex. 21:6; 22:8.
Petunia
These verses are a shadow of the good things to come in Christ Jesus as was all the law. There is no contradiction. It also serves to help confirm that Jesus was indeed a human being. Jesus was the fulfillment of what Aaron only symbolized. In the old covenant you have Moses and Aaron and in the new covenant we have GOD and Christ.
Hi Diana S, How are you today? https://www.bibleref.com/Psalms/82/Psalm-82-1.html
God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment…
Psalm 82:1
Love, Walter
Hi Diana,
In the psalms of Asaf (73-83) “congregation” [H5712] is mentioned twice:
Ps.74:2 Remember thy congregation [H5712], which thou hast purchased of old; the rod of thine inheritance, which thou hast redeemed; this mount Zion, wherein thou hast dwelt.
Ps. 82:1-3 God standeth in the congregation [H5712] of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
Who is judging unjustly?
I would say that the context shows this congregation is formed by human judges.
Psalm 89: psalm of Ethan - so a different writer (who uses a different word for assembly: H5475)
vs 5-8: And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O LORD: thy faithfulness also in the congregation [H6951] of the saints. 6 For who in the heaven can be compared unto the LORD? who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the LORD? 7 God is greatly to be feared in the assembly [H5475] of the saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him. 8 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
I would say: based on the context these verses are speaking about the heavens, it speaks about Gods sons, His hosts that are assembled, heavenly creatures, “none of them can be compared to God”.
And also, but maybe a native English speaker can help us here, but I think there’s a difference between council and counsel?
“the council of the holy ones”: Council = an assembly
“Wonderful Counselor” : Counsel = advice (Counselor = someone who gives advice)
So what do you think, Diana?
Do you agree? And if you disagree, I’d like to know why? What is your line of reasoning?
Petunia
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