General NUMBERS ILLUSTRATIONS / THE END OR LAST DAY

[LeeB]

NUMBERS ILLUSTRATIONS OR LITERAL / THE END OR LAST DAY ​

Prophecy is said to be a sure word. Both angels and prophets have confirmed that prophetic declarations are going to happen exactly as Yahweh revealed them. Jesus gave his prophecy of the end of the age, Jesus said his words would not pass away. There are about 300 prophecies from Genesis to Malachi about a future messiah and Jesus said that he fulfilled all things written about him in the law, psalms and prophets.

If a number is given in a prophecy, not for illustration , it is literal otherwise the prophecy would be incorrect. Psalm 50:10 is not a prophecy but a statement by David giving glory to GOD, GOD owns all cattle , all things on all hills, but Psalm 50:4,5,6 is prophetic and is about the second advent. If I say he is three sheets to the wind it means a man is nearing intoxication but if he is two sheets or four sheets would it be any different, so it is with cattle on a thousand hills. The number is used as an illustration and not the actual focus of the statement . A saint should be able to determine the difference between a statement , illustration or prophecy. Prophecy contains information; events, descriptions of what will happen in a spiritual language requiring the interpretation by the Holy Spirit to the saints. Some prophecies contain numbers some do not but the proper interpretation is still the same. The difference between prophecy and doctrine is that doctrine is prophecy fulfilled as when Jesus fulfilled the prophecy about himself. If numbers like 1, 2, 7 , 10 , 40, 70, 1000 are in either prophecy or doctrine, not in a general statement for illustration, then they are literal.

Revelation says there will be 2 witnesses, 7 seals, 7 trumpets , 7 bowls, 7 thunders, 24 elders, 7 churches, 2 resurrections, 1 Yahweh, 1 Christ, 144000 elect, 7 spirits of GOD, 7 heads, 10 horns. All these numbers represent something literal , the 7 heads are seven mountains of Jerusalem, the ten horns are ten nations that align with the beast. Each number has only one meaning and correct interpretation. If these numbers were not literal you could not make the connections to understand the prophecy they appear in.

The parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25 states that five were wise and five were foolish but to focus on the number five removes from the parable the true meaning because the numbers five and ten are used here only as an illustration. The ten virgins represent the Laodicean church, the oil in the lamps represents the Holy Spirit, the groom is Jesus, the bride is the 144000 elect saints. Since the innumerable multitude cannot be numbered no one knows who they are but Yahweh. A certain number of Laodiceans repent because they have oil but the unwise have no oil and will not be in the first resurrection with the elect 144000. All the Laodiceans will suffer the horrors of the tribulation but not all repent. Laodiceans are the church of Yahweh that backslide, they have quenched and grieved the Holy Spirit exceedingly. Since Yahweh is the only one who knows who they will be this means Jesus did not know either and used the number five as an illustration not to be taken literally but the number was not the focus of what Jesus was explaining.

Looking at the history of what claims to be Christianity one should conclude that none of them are Christians. True Christians are extremely extremely extremely few in number and that number begins with righteous Able and will be fulfilled shortly before Jesus returns. This number is 144000 and they along with the repentant Laodiceans, those who have some oil left, the innumerable multitude, will be in the first resurrection. Logically upon an honest assessment of the condition of the professing Christians going back to the days of the Apostles, when false brethren crept in, to the present day, more imposters crept in and now that is all there are, imposters. Look at their doctrines, their GOD and Christ and their gospel . Examine them to see if they are in the faith or not. This confirms that the number 144000 is none of professing Christianity and is genuine just as the 12000 from each of the 12 tribes of spiritual Israel. These imposters say 144000 is symbolic and not literal because they see that they would be eliminated when the number is that small. I marvel over this myself but I believe it, that out of all people who have lived, from Adam until the return of Christ that will enter the kingdom of Yahweh, will be the 144000 and innumerable multitude. There remains hope for more in the millennium and second resurrection.

The use of numbers in the world and it’s churches is numerology and is of the occult or Satanic, the same thing is in Judaism. It is the word of Yahweh not the numbers of Yahweh as in the Bible code or Jewish Torah code or gematria . While Yahweh does use numbers HIS primary method of communication is words. Numbers are used to illustrate in general statements or to literally indicate in doctrine and prophecy. The weight of importance of a number must complement the text of the message being given and be in agreement with all scriptures about the subject . Jesus was three days and three nights in the tomb as Jonah was in the belly of the fish. Jesus prophesied his death and resurrection. To justify false beliefs the world comes up with various ways to call Jesus a liar so that they feel comfortable eliminating the weekly sabbath to replace it with Sunday, when Jesus confirmed that not one jot or tittle of the law would pass away until heaven and Earth pass away, Matthew 5:18 . All carnal people are under the law and should be following it else they sin. The elect are not under the law and keep no days at all. The saints live all days with Yahweh through his son. Carnal people work in the law while the elect rest, sabbath, and Yahweh works in them. Jesus fulfilled the shadow sabbath of physical rest with spiritual rest. Jesus said he did not abolish the law but fulfilled it. By using numbers provided to us by Yahweh it can be proven which day Jesus was crucified and resurrected, these numbers are literal.

The end. The end of what ? If there was only one end then this would be the only day of salvation. If you think this way then all your unconverted loved ones would indeed perish forever. Paul said, 1 Corinthians 15:19 , 1 Corinthians 15:22,23 each in his own turn or order, indicating different times for an opportunity for salvation. 2 Corinthians 6:2YLT “a day” not “the day” is the correct translation and is from Isaiah 49:8YLT “a day” indicates more than one day. Ezekiel 37:14 describes a fleshly resurrection, the second resurrection, notice in verse 14 the spirit of Yahweh is given. Ezekiel 38 is about Gog and MaGog , verse 8 “ in the latter years” , verse 11 and 12 describes the attack on others of the second resurrection that have been gathered from the nations living in peace. Remember Satan is released in the second resurrection after the 1000 year millennium is finished, Revelation 20:7 , and that everyone on Earth has the Holy Spirit even Gog and MaGog. Gog and MaGog will be destroyed . Then the great white throne judgment follows. There is more than one end or last day. There are major events that begin and end followed by another major event all having a beginning and ending. Finally there happens when all of these are completed there will be no end, no last day anymore. Isaiah 9:7 , Luke 1:33 When we die it will be on our last day. When Jesus returns it will be the last day of this current evil age. When the millennium ends it will be on its last day. After the white throne judgment ends or last days pass away and there will be endless infinity. The phrase “last day” or “the end” is not a single event but a series of different events. Genesis means the beginning or origin , the end is a completion, termination or fulfillment . Yahweh, in Genesis made an end of HIS work. The saints must endure to the end. When the 1000 years are ended, finished, completed. These are deep things but the spirit of Yahweh is able to teach us them through Jesus. 1 Corinthians 2:10

 

[Dave]

I noticed that you didn't mention the 1,260 days (3.5 times / 42 months).
What is your opinion of those numbers?
I ask because i recently wrote and posted the following article to my server and think that your explanation about some numbers being illustrations fits.
Let me know what you think.

:^)
Dave

=====

A Time, Times, and Half a Time​

Daniel 7:25 = a time, times, and half a time
Daniel 12:7 = an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time
Revelation 11:2 = 42 months
Revelation 11:3 = 1,260 days
Revelation 11:9 & 11 = three and a half days
Revelation 12:6 = 1,260 days
Revelation 12:14 = a time, times, and half a time

In the Hebrew language letters are also numbers, and vise versa. If you add 3.5 + 42 + 1,260 you get 1,305.5. That number, when converted to Hebrew letters, spells out "Red Herring".

Really? No, not really. But in my opinion, trying to identify which calendar dates those numbers span is just that: a diversion away from the meaning and message of those verses.

Why do i say that? Well look at the variety of topics that those verses are talking about:

Daniel talks about:
How long the holy ones of the Supreme One will be given into the hand of a certain king
How long until the end of all "these marvelous things" (Da 12:6)

Revelation talks about:
How long the holy city will be trampled
How long two witnesses will prophecy
How long two corpses will be looked upon and remain dead
How long a woman will be fed

Whether you take those numbers as days, or convert them to years (Eze 4:6), does it seem reasonable to you that all six of those events will take the exact same amount of time to be fulfilled?

If you say those numbers represent years, then their fulfillment would not be complete until the distant future. And if you say they are days then they would have been fulfilled long ago. To get around this problem some theorists choose days for some prophecies and years for others to try to explain them. How do they choose when to use days and when to use years? It seems to me that they just use their own personal opinion. If they had scriptures to base their choices on there would be no question as to what they represent.

I propose that the answer to the question is that those numbers are symbolic. But if those numbers are not literal then what do they symbolize? I think the Bible tells us, if you look closely.

Daniel 9:27 (quoted below) refers to a week, and then what will happen "at the half of the week". There, Daniel is talking about what will happen at the midway point of the week. That single point in time, the cessation of gift offering, is the focus. But all of the prophecies listed at the top of this article are not describing what will happen at the midway point of a week, that is to say on the 1,260th day or on the 1,261st day. When those prophecies will end is not the focus, is not what is being discussed. Those prophecies are describing what will occur during the first half of the week, that is to say, between day 1 and day 1,260.

Also: If those numbers in those prophecies are literal, then there would have to be a second half of the same literal time period to make up the full week, as Daniel refers to in the verse:

(Daniel 9:27) “And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.

But none of those prophecies refer to a second half of fulfillment lasting the same amount of time as the first half. How can that be if those numbers are literal and refer to the first half of a specific length of time? Would not the second half be just as literal and last an equal amount of time?

Perhaps all of those numbers are not a literal set length of time but are merely referring to the first half, the first part, that is to say, what happens before the second part. What happens in the second part? Well if you look at those prophecies the time period that follows is Christ's everlasting kingship. (Da 7:27; 12:12; Re 11:15; 12:10; 20:1-4) So those prophecies are telling us what will happen before Christ becomes king.

Will the length of Christ's rule be equal to the amount of time in the "first half" in those prophecies? Obviously not. So how can those numbers which represent a first half mean anything other than simply what happens before the second half? For example, a person's first part (half) of their life could be their school and college years, followed by their second part (half) where they put that education to use in a career. Their second part would eventually become much longer than their first part, but there are still two distinct parts of their life: the before and the after.

Perhaps God uses numbers that represent a "first half" because that is His way of promising that those difficult time periods are only temporary and will eventually improve, in a sense saying: Do not be anxious. This event must take place, but it will soon be replaced with something much better. So continue to endure. (Mt 10:22; 24:13; Mr 13:13; Lu 21:19; He 10:36; 2Co 4:17; Re 2:10)

(Daniel 12:7) As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.

So what will the actual lengths of time be? They will be whatever God appoints them to be.

(Daniel 12:7) It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.

Note: Although most other Bible translations leave out the word "appointed", if you look up the definition of the original Hebrew you will find that the correct translation is "appointed time(s)".

They will only be as long as they need to be for God's will to be accomplished.

(Revelation 17:17) For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.

So my advice is not to get caught up in prophecies based on those numbers. If those numbers were literal, and if we could identify when the prophesied event began, then we would know when the event would end and therefore when Christ's rule would begin. But nobody knows that day or hour.

(Matthew 24:36) “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

But we can look and see what is happening in the world and therefore know what season we are in.

(Luke 21:29, 30) With that he told them an illustration: “Notice the fig tree and all the other trees. 30 When they are budding, you see it for yourselves and know that now the summer is near.

And if we look with a discerning eye we can see when those prophecies are being fulfilled, giving us encouragement that the end is near. (see my article "My Two Witnesses")

==========================​

Perhaps a secondary reason for God using figurative time periods in those verses is to lure out and reveal false prophets. (De 18:21, 22; 1 John 4:1) (see my article "Are You Worshiping Jehovah Acceptably? - Expanded")


What do you think?


:^)
Dave

da.getmyip@gmail.com http://da.getmyip.com/PDF/Ramblings tinyurl.com/bibram1

 

[LeeB]

I see the 12

I noticed that you didn't mention the 1,260 days (3.5 times / 42 months).
What is your opinion of those numbers?
I ask because i recently wrote and posted the following article to my server and think that your explanation about some numbers being illustrations fits.
Let me know what you think.

:^)
Dave

=====

A Time, Times, and Half a Time​

Daniel 7:25 = a time, times, and half a time
Daniel 12:7 = an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time
Revelation 11:2 = 42 months
Revelation 11:3 = 1,260 days
Revelation 11:9 & 11 = three and a half days
Revelation 12:6 = 1,260 days
Revelation 12:14 = a time, times, and half a time

In the Hebrew language letters are also numbers, and vise versa. If you add 3.5 + 42 + 1,260 you get 1,305.5. That number, when converted to Hebrew letters, spells out "Red Herring".

Really? No, not really. But in my opinion, trying to identify which calendar dates those numbers span is just that: a diversion away from the meaning and message of those verses.

Why do i say that? Well look at the variety of topics that those verses are talking about:

Daniel talks about:
How long the holy ones of the Supreme One will be given into the hand of a certain king
How long until the end of all "these marvelous things" (Da 12:6)

Revelation talks about:
How long the holy city will be trampled
How long two witnesses will prophecy
How long two corpses will be looked upon and remain dead
How long a woman will be fed

Whether you take those numbers as days, or convert them to years (Eze 4:6), does it seem reasonable to you that all six of those events will take the exact same amount of time to be fulfilled?

If you say those numbers represent years, then their fulfillment would not be complete until the distant future. And if you say they are days then they would have been fulfilled long ago. To get around this problem some theorists choose days for some prophecies and years for others to try to explain them. How do they choose when to use days and when to use years? It seems to me that they just use their own personal opinion. If they had scriptures to base their choices on there would be no question as to what they represent.

I propose that the answer to the question is that those numbers are symbolic. But if those numbers are not literal then what do they symbolize? I think the Bible tells us, if you look closely.

Daniel 9:27 (quoted below) refers to a week, and then what will happen "at the half of the week". There, Daniel is talking about what will happen at the midway point of the week. That single point in time, the cessation of gift offering, is the focus. But all of the prophecies listed at the top of this article are not describing what will happen at the midway point of a week, that is to say on the 1,260th day or on the 1,261st day. When those prophecies will end is not the focus, is not what is being discussed. Those prophecies are describing what will occur during the first half of the week, that is to say, between day 1 and day 1,260.

Also: If those numbers in those prophecies are literal, then there would have to be a second half of the same literal time period to make up the full week, as Daniel refers to in the verse:

(Daniel 9:27) “And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease.

But none of those prophecies refer to a second half of fulfillment lasting the same amount of time as the first half. How can that be if those numbers are literal and refer to the first half of a specific length of time? Would not the second half be just as literal and last an equal amount of time?

Perhaps all of those numbers are not a literal set length of time but are merely referring to the first half, the first part, that is to say, what happens before the second part. What happens in the second part? Well if you look at those prophecies the time period that follows is Christ's everlasting kingship. (Da 7:27; 12:12; Re 11:15; 12:10; 20:1-4) So those prophecies are telling us what will happen before Christ becomes king.

Will the length of Christ's rule be equal to the amount of time in the "first half" in those prophecies? Obviously not. So how can those numbers which represent a first half mean anything other than simply what happens before the second half? For example, a person's first part (half) of their life could be their school and college years, followed by their second part (half) where they put that education to use in a career. Their second part would eventually become much longer than their first part, but there are still two distinct parts of their life: the before and the after.

Perhaps God uses numbers that represent a "first half" because that is His way of promising that those difficult time periods are only temporary and will eventually improve, in a sense saying: Do not be anxious. This event must take place, but it will soon be replaced with something much better. So continue to endure. (Mt 10:22; 24:13; Mr 13:13; Lu 21:19; He 10:36; 2Co 4:17; Re 2:10)

(Daniel 12:7) As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.

So what will the actual lengths of time be? They will be whatever God appoints them to be.

(Daniel 12:7) It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.

Note: Although most other Bible translations leave out the word "appointed", if you look up the definition of the original Hebrew you will find that the correct translation is "appointed time(s)".

They will only be as long as they need to be for God's will to be accomplished.

(Revelation 17:17) For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.

So my advice is not to get caught up in prophecies based on those numbers. If those numbers were literal, and if we could identify when the prophesied event began, then we would know when the event would end and therefore when Christ's rule would begin. But nobody knows that day or hour.

(Matthew 24:36) “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.

But we can look and see what is happening in the world and therefore know what season we are in.

(Luke 21:29, 30) With that he told them an illustration: “Notice the fig tree and all the other trees. 30 When they are budding, you see it for yourselves and know that now the summer is near.

And if we look with a discerning eye we can see when those prophecies are being fulfilled, giving us encouragement that the end is near. (see my article "My Two Witnesses")

==========================​

Perhaps a secondary reason for God using figurative time periods in those verses is to lure out and reveal false prophets. (De 18:21, 22; 1 John 4:1) (see my article "Are You Worshiping Jehovah Acceptably? - Expanded")


What do you think?


:^)
Dave

da.getmyip@gmail.com http://da.getmyip.com/PDF/Ramblings tinyurl.com/bi

I see the 1260 days as half of the 2520 days which is the last 7 years of the 70 weeks prophecy in Daniel 9. 2520 divided by 7= 360 or the length of a Hebrew year. The great tribulation is not 7 years but 3 1/2 cut short . The first 3 1/2 years is the rise of the antichrist and his covenant with a ten king union. At 2300 days the sanctuary is cleansed by the early return of Christ by 220 days, 2520-2300= 220 . The 1335 days is the sealing of the 144000, blessed is he who waits and comes to it. From the time antichrist ends the sacrifices at the third temple until he sets up the abomination of desolation, which is his setting himself up as God then At 1260 begins the tribulation the sacrifices ended and 30 days later at 1290 the abomination is set up. Only 45 days later the 144000 are sealed which protects them from the hour of trial, Revelation 3:10
Since the Israelites have always known God is not a man they will turn against antichrist thus beginning the time of Jacobs trouble. Jeremiah 30:7 Joel 1:15 Daniel 12:1 Matthew 24:21,22 KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:4
The mark on forehead and hand is instituted . The remnant of the 144000 who are alive and remain instruct those who become the innumerable multitude as both groups are scattered and not by coincidence in the same places but the multitude will be martyred while the elect are spared, but both will be in the resurrection at the return of Jesus.

 

[LeeB]

I have done some examination of your site. It appears you are a former JW. Most here on Simply Christian are. I am former WCG. I would like to ask you what you think of spiritual teaching by divine revelation from GOD through Christ to the saints with no human shepherds involved.

 

[Dave]

I don't know what WCG stands for.

You asked: "I would like to ask you what you think of spiritual teaching by divine revelation from GOD through Christ to the saints with no human shepherds involved."

If i understand your question, i think i cover it on page 5 of my article "The Governing Body".
Here is some of what i say about it:

===

Now did Christ give those taking the lead a task to fulfill? Yes. They are to feed Christ's "lambs" and "little sheep." (Jn 21:15-17) "Lambs" are baby sheep. "Little sheep" are a bit older, but are not yet adults. These new ones to the truth are fed the appropriate spiritual food for their spiritual age.

Those who are new to the Bible need "milk, not solid food" (1Co 3:2), and the "chosen ones" (Mt 24:31) have been given the task of serving that food to the lambs and little sheep. (Mt 24:45) But once a sheep has matured, they move beyond milk and feed themselves solid food. (He 5:11-6:2) (see the article "Share Your Thoughts and Research + advice")

Yes, the directions Christ gave were to make disciples and baptize them. (Mt 28:19) He did not tell them to set up a governing body to tell his sheep what to do, how to think, and to direct every aspect of their worship.

The problem is that once the lambs have matured and are ready to feed themselves solid food, the GB refuse to give up that position between the sheep and Jehovah. Their actions are fulfilled in Christ's illustration of the cultivators. (Mt 21:33-41; Mr 12:1-9; Lu 20:9-16) Were those cultivators given the job of cultivating the landowner's crop? Yes. Did they cultivate the landowner's crop? Yes. Does that mean that the landowner is happy with them? No. What will the owner of the vineyard do? "He will come and kill those cultivators." (Lu 20:16)

Just as the cultivators wanted to keep the vineyard for themselves, the GB want to maintain the position they claim between God and the congregation. But there is only one person who is to be between Jehovah and ourselves.

 

[LeeB]

I don't know what WCG stands for.

You asked: "I would like to ask you what you think of spiritual teaching by divine revelation from GOD through Christ to the saints with no human shepherds involved."

If i understand your question, i think i cover it on page 5 of my article "The Governing Body".
Here is some of what i say about it:

===

Now did Christ give those taking the lead a task to fulfill? Yes. They are to feed Christ's "lambs" and "little sheep." (Jn 21:15-17) "Lambs" are baby sheep. "Little sheep" are a bit older, but are not yet adults. These new ones to the truth are fed the appropriate spiritual food for their spiritual age.

Those who are new to the Bible need "milk, not solid food" (1Co 3:2), and the "chosen ones" (Mt 24:31) have been given the task of serving that food to the lambs and little sheep. (Mt 24:45) But once a sheep has matured, they move beyond milk and feed themselves solid food. (He 5:11-6:2) (see the article "Share Your Thoughts and Research + advice")

Yes, the directions Christ gave were to make disciples and baptize them. (Mt 28:19) He did not tell them to set up a governing body to tell his sheep what to do, how to think, and to direct every aspect of their worship.

The problem is that once the lambs have matured and are ready to feed themselves solid food, the GB refuse to give up that position between the sheep and Jehovah. Their actions are fulfilled in Christ's illustration of the cultivators. (Mt 21:33-41; Mr 12:1-9; Lu 20:9-16) Were those cultivators given the job of cultivating the landowner's crop? Yes. Did they cultivate the landowner's crop? Yes. Does that mean that the landowner is happy with them? No. What will the owner of the vineyard do? "He will come and kill those cultivators." (Lu 20:16)

Just as the cultivators wanted to keep the vineyard for themselves, the GB want to maintain the position they claim between God and the congregation. But there is only one person who is to be between Jehovah and ourselves.

Anyone that learns the truth today must receive it through the mediator, our contact with GOD. In times before Christ angels served as mediators to the prophets but now Christ is the mediator. Hebrews 1:1 No man at any time has seen GOD or even heard HIS voice. The anointing, the Holy Spirit who is the FATHER , through Christ is the only teacher. John6:45
After the death of John GOD and Christ took over the operation of the church totally and eliminated human teachers. This is because GOD knew of the massive persecution and deception that was coming. Even Paul and Apollos could only preach, they could not give the increase, the understanding. Jesus himself learned directly from his GOD as Jesus had the Holy Spirit without measure and always spoke and did what the FATHER told him.
Today the saints learn the truth the same way except through a mediator. They shall be taught by GOD. The saints have no need that any man teach them.

WCG is the Worldwide Church of God, Armstrongism. I came out of it more than 30 years ago. I know the law and I know grace only because GOD through Christ taught me, there was no man involved. I learned the lesson of the schoolmaster.

 

[LeeB]

I don't know what WCG stands for.

You asked: "I would like to ask you what you think of spiritual teaching by divine revelation from GOD through Christ to the saints with no human shepherds involved."

If i understand your question, i think i cover it on page 5 of my article "The Governing Body".
Here is some of what i say about it:

===

Now did Christ give those taking the lead a task to fulfill? Yes. They are to feed Christ's "lambs" and "little sheep." (Jn 21:15-17) "Lambs" are baby sheep. "Little sheep" are a bit older, but are not yet adults. These new ones to the truth are fed the appropriate spiritual food for their spiritual age.

Those who are new to the Bible need "milk, not solid food" (1Co 3:2), and the "chosen ones" (Mt 24:31) have been given the task of serving that food to the lambs and little sheep. (Mt 24:45) But once a sheep has matured, they move beyond milk and feed themselves solid food. (He 5:11-6:2) (see the article "Share Your Thoughts and Research + advice")

Yes, the directions Christ gave were to make disciples and baptize them. (Mt 28:19) He did not tell them to set up a governing body to tell his sheep what to do, how to think, and to direct every aspect of their worship.

The problem is that once the lambs have matured and are ready to feed themselves solid food, the GB refuse to give up that position between the sheep and Jehovah. Their actions are fulfilled in Christ's illustration of the cultivators. (Mt 21:33-41; Mr 12:1-9; Lu 20:9-16) Were those cultivators given the job of cultivating the landowner's crop? Yes. Did they cultivate the landowner's crop? Yes. Does that mean that the landowner is happy with them? No. What will the owner of the vineyard do? "He will come and kill those cultivators." (Lu 20:16)

Just as the cultivators wanted to keep the vineyard for themselves, the GB want to maintain the position they claim between God and the congregation. But there is only one person who is to be between Jehovah and ourselves.

Control is in all the churches, they all have human leaders. The best way is to have God and Christ lead, woe to the one who makes flesh his arm. Jeremiah 17:5,6,7 The Lord is to be the shepherd.

 

[Dave]

"Control is in all the churches, they all have human leaders. The best way is to have God and Christ lead, woe to the one who makes flesh his arm."

Very well said.
I completely agree with you.

:^)

 

[LeeB]

"Control is in all the churches, they all have human leaders. The best way is to have God and Christ lead, woe to the one who makes flesh his arm."

Very well said.
I completely agree with you.

:^)

You are one of the few that does.

 

[Dave]

I know, right!
So many people aren't happy unless they are doing what other people tell them to.
I compare it to someone buying a piece of flat-pack furniture that comes with assembly instructions from the manufacturer, but insisting on having someone else tell them how to assemble it.
Just read the instructions (Bible).

:^)

 

[LeeB]

Basic Instructions Before Life Everlasting

 

[LeeB]

I don't know what WCG stands for.

You asked: "I would like to ask you what you think of spiritual teaching by divine revelation from GOD through Christ to the saints with no human shepherds involved."

If i understand your question, i think i cover it on page 5 of my article "The Governing Body".
Here is some of what i say about it:

===

Now did Christ give those taking the lead a task to fulfill? Yes. They are to feed Christ's "lambs" and "little sheep." (Jn 21:15-17) "Lambs" are baby sheep. "Little sheep" are a bit older, but are not yet adults. These new ones to the truth are fed the appropriate spiritual food for their spiritual age.

Those who are new to the Bible need "milk, not solid food" (1Co 3:2), and the "chosen ones" (Mt 24:31) have been given the task of serving that food to the lambs and little sheep. (Mt 24:45) But once a sheep has matured, they move beyond milk and feed themselves solid food. (He 5:11-6:2) (see the article "Share Your Thoughts and Research + advice")

Yes, the directions Christ gave were to make disciples and baptize them. (Mt 28:19) He did not tell them to set up a governing body to tell his sheep what to do, how to think, and to direct every aspect of their worship.

The problem is that once the lambs have matured and are ready to feed themselves solid food, the GB refuse to give up that position between the sheep and Jehovah. Their actions are fulfilled in Christ's illustration of the cultivators. (Mt 21:33-41; Mr 12:1-9; Lu 20:9-16) Were those cultivators given the job of cultivating the landowner's crop? Yes. Did they cultivate the landowner's crop? Yes. Does that mean that the landowner is happy with them? No. What will the owner of the vineyard do? "He will come and kill those cultivators." (Lu 20:16)

Just as the cultivators wanted to keep the vineyard for themselves, the GB want to maintain the position they claim between God and the congregation. But there is only one person who is to be between Jehovah and ourselves.

Since the early first century AD GOD has eliminated human shepherds and has appointed only one shepherd of the sheep, Christ. Anyone else claiming to be a shepherd is a liar. To give the Pentecost church a boost in growth it was needful to have the Apostles but since John died there are no more Apostles, just men who claim leadership of some kind. Once I left the WCG I did not bear a grudge, I set my hand to the plow and did not look back, remember Lots wife, I work out my salvation with fear and trembling. I let the world alone for if the blind lead the blind we know their destination.