General NT Canon

[Lori Jane]

I mentioned in a bible study that I had issues with the same guys that decided the trinity was orthodox decided what book should be canon.

A friend shared these two links to help answer my questions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5AKPiBZcis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcWbV3QUfIg
Here is my response:
The first video focuses on textual criticism. My question is whether there are missing “books” that should have been part of the canon. Many texts were excluded because the decision-makers at the time did not agree with their content, similar to how the Trinity doctrine was adopted and made “orthodox.”

The second link addresses more of my questions, but I still don’t find it compelling.
Summary of 2nd video:

The early church used three main criteria for canonization: apostolicity (authorship by an apostle or associate), orthodoxy (alignment with established Christian teachings), and catholicity (acceptance by a wide range of churches). These criteria were intended to ensure the integrity and authenticity of the texts within the canon.

However, the canon wasn’t finalized until 393 CE - so that is not early to me. 400 years after Jesus walked the earth is not early to me. The concept of orthodoxy is also debatable, as established Christian teachings were still being defined through various councils. Acceptance by a wide range of churches can be problematic, as differing views were often suppressed, much like in politics. This suppression of alternative perspectives allowed doctrines like the Trinity to become dominant.

For example regarding the Gospel of Thomas

there are scholars and groups who believe that the Gospel of Thomas is an authentic and valuable text that should have been considered for inclusion in the New Testament canon. Here are a few points to consider:

Historical Value: Some scholars argue that the Gospel of Thomas contains early and independent traditions about Jesus’ sayings that might be closer to the original words of Jesus than those found in the canonical gospels.

Mystical and Gnostic Perspectives: The Gospel of Thomas is often associated with Gnostic Christianity, which emphasizes mystical knowledge and personal spiritual experience. This perspective was not aligned with the orthodoxy established by the early church councils, leading to its exclusion.

Modern Scholarly Support: In recent years, some scholars have advocated for a re-evaluation of the Gospel of Thomas, suggesting that it offers valuable insights into early Christian thought and should be studied alongside the canonical texts.

Alternative Christian Communities: Certain modern Christian communities and individuals who are interested in Gnostic or mystical interpretations of Christianity find the Gospel of Thomas to be an important spiritual text.

While the Gospel of Thomas was not included in the New Testament canon due to its theological differences and lack of widespread acceptance in the early church, it continues to be a subject of interest and debate among scholars and spiritual seekers today.

--LJ

 

[Lori Jane]

Here is a link to the Gospel of Thomas - it is very short

General - Gospel of Thomas

Source: https://www.gospels.net/thomas/ The following translation has been committed to the public domain and may be freely copied and used, changed or unchanged, for any purpose. It is based on the Coptic text of Nag Hammadi Codex II, 2. For information about the surviving manuscripts of the...

simplychristian.faith

 

[Lori Jane]

Email reply from my friend:

Are these your quotes? If not, what’s your source(s)?

The bottom line for self-professing Christians is whether or not you have or have not scriptures to stand on.

In other words, how can you play any board game if you don’t agree on what the board is?

My reply is:
First of all I'm not playing a game. I'm out of the religion game. I'm seeking a true relationship with my heavenly father through Jesus Christ.

I don't feel the scriptures we have as canon are all the information we should have. I feel there are books and writings and teachings that have been suppressed and hidden from us. So to use your game analagy - the rules have been changed, some removed. Causing us to play someone elses game and not the one we should be.

As far as the quotes go it was from a standard internet search - I didn't save the links sorry.

 

[Lori Jane]

These aren't the original quotes but I did another search using copilot and this is the results:

The blue hyperlinks take you to the source webpages.

There are a few scholars who have argued that the Gospel of Thomas should have been considered for inclusion in the New Testament canon. Here are some notable ones:

1. John Dominic Crossan: A prominent scholar of early Christianity, Crossan argues that the Gospel of Thomas contains early, independent traditions that parallel those found in the canonical Gospels. He suggests that it provides valuable insights into the historical Jesus and early Christian thought1.

1. Elaine Pagels: Known for her work on Gnostic texts, Pagels has highlighted the spiritual and theological richness of the Gospel of Thomas. She believes it offers a different perspective on Jesus’ teachings that could have complemented the canonical Gospels2.

1. Marvin Meyer: An expert in Gnostic studies, Meyer has translated and written extensively about the Gospel of Thomas. He argues that its sayings reflect an early Christian tradition that is both authentic and significant3.

These scholars appreciate the Gospel of Thomas for its unique insights and its potential to broaden our understanding of early Christian beliefs and practices.

 

[Lori Jane]

The Gospel of Thomas was excluded from the New Testament canon for several reasons:

1. Late Discovery: The Gospel of Thomas was not widely known or circulated among early Christian communities. It was discovered in the Nag Hammadi library in Egypt in 1945, long after the New Testament canon was established.
2. Gnostic Elements: The Gospel of Thomas contains elements of Gnostic thought, which emphasizes secret knowledge (gnosis) for spiritual enlightenment. Early church leaders often viewed Gnostic teachings as heretical and inconsistent with orthodox Christian doctrine.
3. Lack of Narrative: Unlike the canonical Gospels, the Gospel of Thomas is a collection of sayings attributed to Jesus, without a narrative structure. This format was less aligned with the criteria used by early church councils, which favored texts that provided a coherent account of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection.
4. Apostolic Authority: The early church prioritized texts believed to be directly linked to the apostles or their close associates. The Gospel of Thomas did not have a clear apostolic connection, which diminished its authority in the eyes of early church leaders.
5. Theological Differences: Some of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas diverge significantly from the teachings found in the canonical Gospels. These theological differences contributed to its exclusion, as the early church sought to maintain doctrinal consistency.

These factors combined to influence the decision to exclude the Gospel of Thomas from the New Testament canon.

 

[Lori Jane]

I have a problem with #2 and #5 because it gives authority to other men to decide what I can and cannot consider in learning about Jesus and his message. They are filtering it for us. Just like Watchtower filtered and told us what to believe.

They've turned the word "gnostic" and "occult" into dirty words which simply mean "knowledge" and "hidden". The authorities are the ones that hid these things from the common people.

What I'm saying is we should consider it ALL and not be limited by a body of self-appointed men to decide.

There is a reason someone felt it important to preserve the documents preserved in the Dead Sea scrolls and Nag Hamadi scriptures.

 

[benadam1974]

Email reply from my friend:



My reply is:
First of all I'm not playing a game. I'm out of the religion game. I'm seeking a true relationship with my heavenly father through Jesus Christ.

I don't feel the scriptures we have as canon are all the information we should have. I feel there are books and writings and teachings that have been suppressed and hidden from us. So to use your game analagy - the rules have been changed, some removed. Causing us to play someone elses game and not the one we should be.

As far as the quotes go it was from a standard internet search - I didn't save the links sorry.

Thanks but I think you misjudged the analogy but I digress. Here are two videos for the record….

New Testament Criterion, Canon and Corruptions


Is the NT Canon Trinitarian?

 

[LeeB]

I mentioned in a bible study that I had issues with the same guys that decided the trinity was orthodox decided what book should be canon.

A friend shared these two links to help answer my questions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcWbV3QUfIg
Here is my response:
The first video focuses on textual criticism. My question is whether there are missing “books” that should have been part of the canon. Many texts were excluded because the decision-makers at the time did not agree with their content, similar to how the Trinity doctrine was adopted and made “orthodox.”

The second link addresses more of my questions, but I still don’t find it compelling.
Summary of 2nd video:

However, the canon wasn’t finalized until 393 CE - so that is not early to me. 400 years after Jesus walked the earth is not early to me. The concept of orthodoxy is also debatable, as established Christian teachings were still being defined through various councils. Acceptance by a wide range of churches can be problematic, as differing views were often suppressed, much like in politics. This suppression of alternative perspectives allowed doctrines like the Trinity to become dominant.

For example regarding the Gospel of Thomas


--LJ

Lori, there are historical records that inform us that the Catholic Church has changed many verses of scripture. I have read these accounts years ago. Since even before the Nicean council there were trinitarians. When Paul went to Rome and preached many that heard him were pagans, only a very few were truly Christians. These pagans using pagan minds grew in large numbers and produced a theology based on their pagan roots. Later they called themselves the Catholic Church. Today we have no idea what damage the Popes and others may have done. Remember, the Catholic Church became what was considered by many to be the outgrowth of the Pentecost church and went unchallenged until Luther. In reality the Catholic Church is the eldest daughter of the harlot of Babylon. In spite of all of this the truth of GOD can yet be determined with the 66 books we have. The evil that may have been done in no way can thwart the will of GOD. All true saints, Christians, are taught directly by GOD through Jesus Christ. John 6:45