Daily Verse HEBREWS 5:6-7

[LeeB]

Hebrews 5:6-7 is used by many that say it is Jesus that offered up prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears. When you read the accounts in the gospels did Jesus ever do these things ? Hebrews 5:7 “To the one being able to save him from death and having been heard in that he feared.” It says the crying one “was heard” an indication of answered prayer. Hebrews 5:6 “ after the order of Melchizedek who during the days of his flesh offered up prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears.” This has nothing to do with Christ but with Melchizedek. Many false translations actually place the name of Jesus in verse 7 but the text itself is a continuation of the end of verse 6 where the subject is Melchizedek. The commas and the insertion of the name Jesus is uninspired carnal thinking injected into the verse by carnal uninspired translators.

Melchizedek was king of Salem and under the same threat by an alliance of four kings as the other cities in the area. Abraham was the answer to the praying and loud crying of Melchizedek and Melchizedek was saved from death. Hebrews 7:1 Jesus died but Melchizedek did not, he was heard and saved from death by GOD sending Abraham.

 

[Petunia]

Interesting point!

prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears:

- (Jesus) began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy; And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death …And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee (Mark 14: 33-36, KJV)
- And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground (Luke 22:44, KJV)
- My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Far from saving me The words of my loud lamentation? 2 My God! I keep crying—By day and thou dost not answer, and By night and there is no rest for me. (Psalm 22:1-2, Rotherham)
- And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46, KJV)
- And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.(Luke 23:46, KJV)

His prayers were answered:

- Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Luke 22:42-43, KJV)
- And I have a water to plunge in, and what a pressure I am under till it is done! (Luke 12:50, Byington)
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. (John 19:30)

 

[LeeB]

The incident in Ge

Interesting point!

prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears:

- (Jesus) began to be sore amazed, and to be very heavy; And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death …And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee (Mark 14: 33-36, KJV)
- And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground (Luke 22:44, KJV)
- My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Far from saving me The words of my loud lamentation? 2 My God! I keep crying—By day and thou dost not answer, and By night and there is no rest for me. (Psalm 22:1-2, Rotherham)
- And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46, KJV)
- And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.(Luke 23:46, KJV)

His prayers were answered:

- Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. (Luke 22:42-43, KJV)
- And I have a water to plunge in, and what a pressure I am under till it is done! (Luke 12:50, Byington)
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the g

 

[LeeB]

The incident in Gethsemane was an attack by Satan in an attempt to kill Jesus before he could go to the cross. Luke 4:13 “a more opportune time”. The only other time after the temptation was in Gethsemane. This was the “cup” Jesus asked to be removed as he never would have asked his FATHER to escape crucifixion. John 12:27 Matthew 26:53 Hebrews 12:2 You are correct that the prayer of Jesus was answered and that the angel came and “strengthened Jesus” so that he could go to the cross. I cannot subscribe to the idea that Jesus chickened out at the last minute, his entire record of his commitment to his death is solid. Jesus was one with GOD, if you see Jesus you see the FATHER, Jesus came to do the will of the FATHER, Jesus dwelled in the FATHER and the FATHER dwelled in Jesus. Jesus was not a coward.

 

[Petunia]

I fully agree that Jesus was not a coward and he didn’t withdraw or fail through lack of nerve.

But he did have very strong feelings! His suffering was extremely (physically and mentally).

In my opinion “prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears” are not evidence of being weak, but of great faith! And feelings - even for a little moment - of not wanting to do something extremely painful is human, doing it anyway is very brave! He wanted -for a moment- to be saved from the cross - he was troubled by the idea (who wouldn’t be?), but he didn’t want to ask to remove from him what was necessary to do, where he came for. That makes me esteem him even more! (Heb.4:15)

Have a nice day!

 

[LeeB]

I fully agree that Jesus was not a coward and he didn’t withdraw or fail through lack of nerve.

But he did have very strong feelings! His suffering was extremely (physically and mentally).

In my opinion “prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears” are not evidence of being weak, but of great faith! And feelings - even for a little moment - of not wanting to do something extremely painful is human, doing it anyway is very brave! He wanted -for a moment- to be saved from the cross - he was troubled by the idea (who wouldn’t be?), but he didn’t want to ask to remove from him what was necessary to do, where he came for. That makes me esteem him even more! (Heb.4:15)

Have a nice day!

Jesus was indeed human. He had a human body and a human spirit, he was a soul. Jesus was also the first born of a new creation that is our example to follow. We are to be transformed into his image as he was created in the image of the invisible GOD. This means that biologically Jesus was like us but spirituality he was far above us. Before we can enter the kingdom we must be changed both bodily and spiritually but Jesus only needed a change of body because his spirit was already one with GOD . Perfect love casts out fear. 1 John 4:18 Jesus had the same love as GOD , John 15:9 Thinking Jesus was fearful or afraid is inconsistent with GODLY love. It is also inconsistent with faith. Mark 5:36 It is also inconsistent with all the statements Jesus made concerning his death. Matthew 16:21,22,23 The things of men or the things of GOD. It is the common thought among many, the things of men, that cause them to think Jesus, the things of GOD, would fear death. Jesus had the mind of GOD and we are to be of the same mind. John 5:19 John 6:38 John 8:28 John 12:49,50 John 14:10 These are very powerful words. When examining the events in Gethsemane these words should be developed or formed in our minds. Jesus did not think like we do if his mind is to be in us. Philippians 2:5 It is possible for us to think of Jesus in a way that is too human. 1 Corinthians 2:16 Isaiah 55:8,9 Jesus thought like his FATHER and his ways as his FATHERS . Hebrews 1:3
Jesus the man was our example of how we can be recreated to be in the image of Jesus who was the image of the invisible GOD. Jesus was not GOD but spiritually was in HIS image, Colossians 1:15 Romans 8:29

 

[Petunia]

biologically Jesus was like us

But without sin, so that’s a huge difference! Even though, we can relate to him and he to us. (Heb.4:15)

His spirit was already one with GOD
Heb.5:8-9a Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect …

The human soul of Christ’s perfect manhood “learned” just as His human body grew (Luke 2:52). (Cambridge Bible)

Thinking Jesus was fearful or afraid is inconsistent with GODLY love.

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

So perfect love drives out fear: this doesn’t mean there is never fear, but that fear is driven out by love. Fear exists, but it’s conquered by love.

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

This was even after the angel strengthening him! (vs 43)
“… instances show, that grief, surprise, and fear, have sometimes had such an effect on men; but it was not mere fear of death, and trouble of mind, concerning that, which thus wrought on our Lord, but the sense he had of the sins of his people, which were imputed to him, and the curse of the righteous law of God, which he endured, and especially the wrath of God, which was let into his soul. (Gill’s exposition)

Thinking Jesus was fearful or afraid is inconsistent with faith.

Mark 5:36 Be not afraid, only believe.
The same principle applies: Fear exists, but it’s conquered by faith.

Compare: Mat. 21:28-31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father.

It’s not so black and white as we often think!

Jesus was weeping and groaned in the spirit, and was troubled at Lazarus’ grave. Emotions make us human! But a perfect human can always choose to obey the Father, in spite of fear, sorrow or being troubled. Without these emotions we are not humans but robots!

It is possible for us to think of Jesus in a way that is too human.

The way you describe Jesus, it seems to me like he was divine. Like he couldn’t do wrong?
If that’s the case it wouldn’t be so difficult for him as Scripture tells us it was!
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Heb.4:15)

I see Jesus as a man who in everything chose to do things his Father’s way:
I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved. (Ps.16:8)
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

I don’t think we can come to the same viewpoint on this, but that’s okay (Dan.12:4). At the end of the day it’s about John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Have a nice day!