General ELECTION DAY

Tomorrow is Election Day in the United States. This election is not like any election I have ever seen. The degree of evil in politics has always been there but this election has surpassed all before it. History informs us that there are cycles in leadership where you have good rulers and evil rulers. What good one may do is destroyed by the evil then the good returns and restores the good only to be followed by another evil. This , when you think about it , is insanity. It is proof that humanity cannot rule itself. Jeremiah 10:23 Jeremiah 17:5 Luke 19:27 1 Samuel 8:7 1 Samuel 8:10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18 Should Christians think this way, should they answer the way Israel did ? 1 Samuel 8:19,20 Christians are to acknowledge the King appointed by YAHWEH, Jesus Christ. Even though that kingdom is not yet we have been called and chosen to be in it and NOW live as though we are in it.

Even as a very young man I saw the uselessness of voting and human governments. I saw the rise and fall of nations throughout history. I saw all the wars fought. What I was seeing was a verification of YAHWEHS words to Samuel. Christians are said to be ambassadors, not of this world but representatives of a world tomorrow, a future kingdom of which we are told that we are citizens. Philippians 3:20 We are to live as Christ lived, who did not participate in the affairs of men but said he was not of this world. There is no way humanity is going to make the world a better place, only YAHWEH can do that. If the churches of this world are of Satan the governments are as well. 2 Corinthians 4:4 Luke 4:6 John 14:30

If the testimony of the prophets, Jesus and the Apostles are true then this current evil world is going to end. Isaiah 24:1,2,3 What does Matthew 6:33 speak to you ?

I will agree that in this election tomorrow that Donald Trump seems to me to be the better candidate over Harris. Democrats have already made plans to remove Trump, if elected, by using the 25th amendment. Democrats will oppose Trump opportunity effectively tying him up to prevent him from doing anything. No matter which candidate wins there will be violence and chaos as people are already wound up tighter than a drum. I have shown in other articles that the U.S. is the seventh king that must fall to make way for the eighth. Since the beginning every nation that has risen to greatness has fallen and the U.S. will be no different.
All I ask is that you think on what I have written. By the way I did cast one vote more than 30 years ago as to who is my king and so did you.

 

[Bvenski]

Vote in this Presidential Election, if you want to, or don't vote. Make a choice. Anyone saying, "You are a Christian and you shouldn't be participating in carnal, worldly voting elections.", can go pound salt.

 

[LeeB]

Vote in this Presidential Election, if you want to, or don't vote. Make a choice. Anyone saying, "You are a Christian and you shouldn't be participating in carnal, worldly voting elections.", can go pound salt.

Expected response from you. Crude and extremely spiritually ignorant.

 

[Bvenski]

LOL

 

[Petunia]

Every Christian is free to make his/ her own choice - to vote or not to vote.

There are arguments on both sides.

Rom. 14:4

 

[Bvenski]

Every Christian is free to make his/ her own choice - to vote or not to vote.

There are arguments on both sides.

Rom. 14:4

I agree Petunia.

LeeB is either grumpy this morning or in one of his holier than thou moods.

 

[LeeB]

LOL

You are such a wonderful example of what Lori created this forum for, a safe place to explore Christianity, where the members are polite and noncombative. Where they actually hear someone out and the scriptures they use. Not making shrud comments and dispensing ridicule. Yes Bvenski, what a fine example you are.

 

[Bvenski]

You are such a wonderful example of what Lori created this forum for, a safe place to explore Christianity, where the members are polite and noncombative. Where they actually hear someone out and the scriptures they use. Not making shrud comments and dispensing ridicule. Yes Bvenski, what a fine example you are.

Dude, you just need to get off your pedestal once and awhile. Breathe some fresh air or something. You are only one part of the body. Christianity isn't only viewed through the lense of LeeB.

 

[LeeB]

Luke 19:26,27 Jesus Christ is to be the husband of the bride, the church. When we become Christians we owe our allegiance to him, not to the world. Our citizenship is in heaven, we are not to be of this world as Jesus was not of this world. The world currently belongs to Satan, the god of this world and this by the the will of the true GOD. This world is going to end and a new world ruled by Christ is coming. You cannot server two masters. 1 John 5:19 the world, all nations is under the control of the wicked one. Luke 4:6 1 John 4:4 Israel was an example to us , 1 Corinthians 10:11 just as Israel rejected GOD as their king and wanted a human ruler Christians should not do the same. Romans 15:4 Psalm 102:18 Jesus is the king of Christianity, Matthew 21:5 Jesus told Pilate, John 18:37 Christians are to put first that king and his kingdom, Matthew 6:33 Matthew 27:11 Luke 23:3 Isaiah told Christians who their king is, Isaiah 9:6 Ancient Israel wanted a human ruler and rejected GOD from ruling over them. They wanted to be like other nations. Today it is the same, nothing has changed, people still reject GOD and desire human government. Yes it is your choice but I thought you might want to know what GOD thinks about all of this. This is not my word, not my pedestal, these are the words of GOD. THINK ON IT.

 

[Bvenski]

I already know all that. I ain't serving two masters. I'm not of this world because I voted in a bloody election. I don't reject the God and desire human government. Give me a break.

 

[LeeB]

You say you don't desire human government but yet participate in it.
There is no voting in the kingdom of God. Christians are not to take each other to court before unbelievers. What does being unspotted from the world mean ? Is the political system holy, righteous and good ? What has human government done now and in the past ? If you participate in anything then you are involved in it and part of it.

 

[Petunia]

I respect other Christians who vote. If their conscience tells them they can, or even MUST vote - who am I to condemn them? Rom. 14:10-12

Someone could reason:

- if every Christian in history would have abstained from voting - would the world be better or worse? (Prov. 28:15; 29:2)

- governments are “God’s ministers”, they are not in place of God’s Kingdom but the’ll last until God’s Kingdom takes over! (Rom. 13:1-6; Daniel 2:44).

- the Bible says we have to pray for governments to “lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty”, can’t we vote for that same purpose? (1 Tim. 2:1-4)

Christian freedom and following our own conscience is something beautiful! We are FREE from dogmatic beliefs! Let’s keep it that way and let’s respect each other’s conscience even if it doesn’t align with ours! 1 Pe 2:13-17

Isn’t that the purpose of this forum?

 

[Outcast]

Well, disregarding the snarky responses, I'll share my two cents here.

Examples of governments in the Middle East in the time that Jesus walked the earth, leaders were not elected. There were no governors or emperors chosen by the vote "of the people." In my mind, there were either "back room" folks deciding who would take the reins or assassinations that put in place the one who was still alive. (Apparently, it is the same way now sometimes.) It was a major blood-line condition, and then the one who ascended to the lofty position of emperor, king, or governor would assign someone to oversee other places.

I do not know how leaders in the Sanhedrin were put in position, but that could have been a consensus decision - but only by the votes of only those in that group.

We do not live in that time. However, I know that Yahweh, the Only True God, is in control. What I do know is that I, my wife, my children and grandchildren have to live under the governance of those in authority. We are not told in scripture about public voting for people in positions of authority in a Republic. That leaves me to consider that we are in a country that was originally established under God's control by men who held Yahweh in high esteem. I think their wisdom must have come from God.

So, despite my trust in Father to have His will operate in accordance to His plan, what little voice I have in choosing a leader, I exercise it. I can understand LeeB's choice to not participate which is his right. I simply ask that my choice to apply my right to vote be understood as well.

Daniel 2:21
“It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men and knowledge to men of understanding.

Romans 13:1-2
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”

1 Peter 2:13
Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,

If we get a terrible person in authority, I have to accept it as either part of Yahweh's plan or His letting us suffer from our choices.

Consider this, if men nearly 250 years ago rose up against a king of England to establish this country were doing the will of God, they rebelled against authority and, hopefully, were aware of the verses I quoted. When the southern states rose up and declared their independence from the northern ones, it seem that they violated those verses as well. These thoughts end up looking like a bird's next in my mind. Sometimes, we get what we asked for.

Yes, I vote for Yeshua to be my King and Yahweh to be my God. And in accordance with the nation's founding fathers, I choose to voice my opinion on who should be our leaders, because I think that right is part of God's will for us. The results, I believe, are also part of God's plan. It is not for me to know how it fits in His plan.

 

[Petunia]

Thanks for your balanced response!

Sometimes 2 cents can have a tremendous value! Mark 12:42

 

[Bvenski]

You say you don't desire human government but yet participate in it.
There is no voting in the kingdom of God. Christians are not to take each other to court before unbelievers. What does being unspotted from the world mean ? Is the political system holy, righteous and good ? What has human government done now and in the past ? If you participate in anything then you are involved in it and part of it.

I don't desire human government. I want Jesus to return and run things. That's the type of immortal human government I want. In the meantime, I wait and I participate in voting because I choose to. Yes, by voting I'm involved in human government. I work for a State. So what? Who are you to look down at me from your pedestal?

You might as well say Paul desired human government in Acts 22 because he invoked his rights as a Roman citizen. Get off your high horse.

 

[Kaironaut]

I don't desire human government. I want Jesus to return and run things. That's the type of immortal human government I want. In the meantime, I wait and I participate in voting because I choose to. Yes, by voting I'm involved in human government. I work for a State. So what? Who are you to look down at me from your pedestal?

You might as well say Paul desired human government in Acts 22 because he invoked his rights as a Roman citizen. Get off your high horse.

Let me add that at no point do I remember that the Cornelius, and the other centurion, and the eunuch were asked to quit their jobs. Neither was Naaman was asked to quit his job either. How about Joseph, son of Jacob, was he asked to step down from office? Perhaps Matthew quit his job, but Zaccheus? It seems to be a case-to-case basis until the kingdom comes. By the way, I don’t remember Daniel/Belteshazar, Hananiah/Shadrach, Mishael/Meshach, and Azariah/Abednego quitting their jobs either. I don’t think these people are particularly approving of their own station or situation, but they served the best they could.

 

[Kaironaut]

Well, disregarding the snarky responses, I'll share my two cents here.

Examples of governments in the Middle East in the time that Jesus walked the earth, leaders were not elected. There were no governors or emperors chosen by the vote "of the people." In my mind, there were either "back room" folks deciding who would take the reins or assassinations that put in place the one who was still alive. (Apparently, it is the same way now sometimes.) It was a major blood-line condition, and then the one who ascended to the lofty position of emperor, king, or governor would assign someone to oversee other places.

I do not know how leaders in the Sanhedrin were put in position, but that could have been a consensus decision - but only by the votes of only those in that group.

We do not live in that time. However, I know that Yahweh, the Only True God, is in control. What I do know is that I, my wife, my children and grandchildren have to live under the governance of those in authority. We are not told in scripture about public voting for people in positions of authority in a Republic. That leaves me to consider that we are in a country that was originally established under God's control by men who held Yahweh in high esteem. I think their wisdom must have come from God.

So, despite my trust in Father to have His will operate in accordance to His plan, what little voice I have in choosing a leader, I exercise it. I can understand LeeB's choice to not participate which is his right. I simply ask that my choice to apply my right to vote be understood as well.

Daniel 2:21
“It is He who changes the times and the epochs; He removes kings and establishes kings; He gives wisdom to wise men and knowledge to men of understanding.

Romans 13:1-2
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, “You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.”

1 Peter 2:13
Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,

If we get a terrible person in authority, I have to accept it as either part of Yahweh's plan or His letting us suffer from our choices.

Consider this, if men nearly 250 years ago rose up against a king of England to establish this country were doing the will of God, they rebelled against authority and, hopefully, were aware of the verses I quoted. When the southern states rose up and declared their independence from the northern ones, it seem that they violated those verses as well. These thoughts end up looking like a bird's next in my mind. Sometimes, we get what we asked for.

Yes, I vote for Yeshua to be my King and Yahweh to be my God. And in accordance with the nation's founding fathers, I choose to voice my opinion on who should be our leaders, because I think that right is part of God's will for us. The results, I believe, are also part of God's plan. It is not for me to know how it fits in His plan.

So was it completely out of line to vote Jesus vs. Barabbas? Or was it only wrong when they condemned Jesus and freed Barabbas? Such procedure was certainly human governance at any rate.

 

[Lori Jane]

I for one have no problem with voting. Yes my vote for ultimate government is for Jesus. Until his return I will cast my vote regarding things that affect my here and now and the future of my children. Yes it seems like Jesus will be here soon but that is what they thought back in the first century and here we are 2000 years later.

Yesterday was the first time in my entire life that I voted - I'm 60 years old! I realized as I was preparing to vote that there is so much more than voting for president - there were a lot of local issues that affect things like legalizing drugs and abortion which I'm opposed to. I'm proud I was able to do my part to effect change a little bit. Of course humans can't do it perfectly - that has been proven but to simply not do anything to me makes one in a way "participating" by not doing anything.

 

[Lori Jane]

From Perplexity AI:

There are no clear scriptures that explicitly prohibit believers from participating in elections. The Bible does not directly address the modern concept of democratic voting. However, there are some principles and passages that are sometimes interpreted as potentially discouraging political involvement:

1. "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36) - Some interpret this as Jesus indicating his followers should not be overly concerned with earthly politics.
2. "Do not be conformed to this world" (Romans 12:2) - This could be seen as discouraging engagement in worldly systems like politics.
3. "Our citizenship is in heaven" (Philippians 3:20) - This emphasizes believers' primary allegiance to God's kingdom rather than earthly nations.
4. "Put not your trust in princes" (Psalm 146:3) - This warns against placing too much hope in human leaders.
5. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" (Mark 12:17) - While often used to support political engagement, some see this as separating spiritual matters from government.

However, these passages are not generally interpreted by most Christian traditions as prohibiting voting or political participation. Many Christians view responsible citizenship, including voting, as part of their duty to be "salt and light" in society
6
12
. The Bible also instructs believers to pray for and honor governmental leaders (1 Timothy 2:1-4, Romans 13:1-7), which some see as supporting political engagement
12
.Ultimately, there is no clear biblical mandate either for or against voting. Many Christians view it as a matter of personal conscience and wisdom in how best to love one's neighbors and promote godly values in society. The decision often depends on one's interpretation of scripture and understanding of how to best apply biblical principles in a modern democratic context.

 

[Bvenski]

I for one have no problem with voting. Yes my vote for ultimate government is for Jesus. Until his return I will cast my vote regarding things that affect my here and now and the future of my children. Yes it seems like Jesus will be here soon but that is what they thought back in the first century and here we are 2000 years later.

Yesterday was the first time in my entire life that I voted - I'm 60 years old! I realized as I was preparing to vote that there is so much more than voting for president - there were a lot of local issues that affect things like legalizing drugs and abortion which I'm opposed to. I'm proud I was able to do my part to effect change a little bit. Of course humans can't do it perfectly - that has been proven but to simply not do anything to me makes one in a way "participating" by not doing anything.

Hi Lori, good for you! Well done w/ your fellow Floridians in voting against abortion and the drugs, and winning I might add.

And as for the 120+ million 18+ year old Americans who didn't vote, that is their right and I will defend it as well.

Vote or don't vote. Make your choice.

Those who claim you ain't Christian because you vote, well, they need to study the scriptures a bit more, I reckon.