General Divisions

[Tsarina Andadora]

******NOT implying the trinity.

So, there's something I see in Jesus' words that I feel doesn't match with how most churches today view certain things. But I know this is something that, should I start attending another church, would probably cause a hardship for me to be able to do missions or be a part of any worship team.

So my question is, do I align my life to essentially be a pimo in that church? Or do I keep searching for a better/closer group of believers to be with?

I wish I could share what I truly feel I see about Jesus and how he defined worship and our obligations as Christians, but I can't at this time. But I also feel that my convictions are strong and come from a sound theological space. So I just wondered what y'all thought.

 

[London]

You ask a good question! I am reading Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz and it seems he decided to not join another religion/church but study the bible as an individual and with a small circle of friends. He reasons that every church no matter how good their intentions gradually navigate to a "Pharisaic" way of "ruling". In other words, the whole group has to believe the same things and a few tend to dominate and make rules for the rest. At least that is how I summarize what Ray concluded. If you haven't read it yet you may want to. Many religions/churches help people in practical ways. You may want to help too. At my last job, we packed donated food and supplies for school children who did not have enough to eat. It was through my job but I really enjoyed it. Everyone who volunteered wanted to be there and it was fun! That is what I enjoyed about JW religion,....working on quick builds, etc.

If you want to share what you are learning..feel free to do so! I learned about proverbs 31 website from this community and really enjoy their daily devotionals. However, they list their beliefs at the bottom of the website. I don't believe everything they do but that doesn't mean I don't love their articles and get a lot of encouragement from them. I found Tim Mackie on youtube and love his research but I don't believe exactly everything the same as him either. To me the variety is so wonderful and there is so much to enjoy and appreciate about other people's research. That being said: I do have a lot in common with both Tim and proverbs 31. I have more in common then different! Variety is the spice of life and if someone is showing love and kindness that is the important thing to me. Just my opinion! nothing more nothing less.

Freedom means to be loved and accepted for who and what you are as a person. If we believe something and we find out it isn't true what then? The disciples thought Jesus was going to restore the kingdom at that time. They were not even thinking he would die. The night he was arrested all the disciples fled except Peter who followed at a distance. What a shock to them but how did they handle it? They mourned and then adjusted/adapted. Their love for the Christ was made stronger. Not to mention, God's arrangement for Jesus rulership was far grander then the disciples could imagine! That is one characteristic our Creator has, His creations, arrangements are always a pleasant surprise and exceed all our expectations.

 

[Romj]

Hi Tsarina,
I found it also difficult, the groups I´ve found after leaving JW. One group or more believe in the trinity, other that Jesus didn´t exist before he was born on the earth. Horrible, it is possible I am not going to find any group that has got the truth. They all say they have got the Holy Spirit, but they don´t if their beliefs differ, because the spirit shoul explain everything. So where is the truth? I am also very confused. I just pray and wait for some explanation from God.

 

[Tsarina Andadora]

You ask a good question! I am reading Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz and it seems he decided to not join another religion/church but study the bible as an individual and with a small circle of friends. He reasons that every church no matter how good their intentions gradually navigate to a "Pharisaic" way of "ruling". In other words, the whole group has to believe the same things and a few tend to dominate and make rules for the rest. At least that is how I summarize what Ray concluded. If you haven't read it yet you may want to. Many religions/churches help people in practical ways. You may want to help too. At my last job, we packed donated food and supplies for school children who did not have enough to eat. It was through my job but I really enjoyed it. Everyone who volunteered wanted to be there and it was fun! That is what I enjoyed about JW religion,....working on quick builds, etc.

If you want to share what you are learning..feel free to do so! I learned about proverbs 31 website from this community and really enjoy their daily devotionals. However, they list their beliefs at the bottom of the website. I don't believe everything they do but that doesn't mean I don't love their articles and get a lot of encouragement from them. I found Tim Mackie on youtube and love his research but I don't believe exactly everything the same as him either. To me the variety is so wonderful and there is so much to enjoy and appreciate about other people's research. That being said: I do have a lot in common with both Tim and proverbs 31. I have more in common then different! Variety is the spice of life and if someone is showing love and kindness that is the important thing to me. Just my opinion! nothing more nothing less.

Freedom means to be loved and accepted for who and what you are as a person. If we believe something and we find out it isn't true what then? The disciples thought Jesus was going to restore the kingdom at that time. They were not even thinking he would die. The night he was arrested all the disciples fled except Peter who followed at a distance. What a shock to them but how did they handle it? They mourned and then adjusted/adapted. Their love for the Christ was made stronger. Not to mention, God's arrangement for Jesus rulership was far grander then the disciples could imagine! That is one characteristic our Creator has, His creations, arrangements are always a pleasant surprise and exceed all our expectations.

I've been thinking about your comment a lot since you posted it. I likes the point you brought out that even the disciples didn't fully understand things. I think in my own life, I'm just really grateful that I was able to wake up and come to a deeper understanding. I truly want that for other people as well. But I do feel Jesus knows our abilities. I think we must keep that in mind when we deal with our brothers and sisters in Christ.

I did end up going to church for Resurrection Sunday and I enjoyed it very much. I was invited to the pastor's home for lunch and it was enjoyable. I think we are all just trying to figure it out and be the best we can be. Thank God for Grace.

 

[Tsarina Andadora]

Hi Tsarina,
I found it also difficult, the groups I´ve found after leaving JW. One group or more believe in the trinity, other that Jesus didn´t exist before he was born on the earth. Horrible, it is possible I am not going to find any group that has got the truth. They all say they have got the Holy Spirit, but they don´t if their beliefs differ, because the spirit shoul explain everything. So where is the truth? I am also very confused. I just pray and wait for some explanation from God.

I'm glad I went about two years before truly deciding to find a church to attend. I don't really go for instruction. I think most pastors/teachers are just sharing their thoughts. This new church I went to the pastor is pretty quick to say he doesn't know something or maybe there's different perspectives. I keep the fact I'm not trinitarian to myself. I have no problem giving honor or singing to Jesus.

I think instruction is between you and God using the Holy Spirit and I think that's okay. We rely on the Holy Spirit and then the Bible.

 

[Romj]

Yes, the important thing is, that we are no more the only owners of the Truth as we were within JW.
It is an adventure to look for the Truth and probably not finding it yet.
How was your Memorial? I was partaking the first time, joining the Beroeans. I felt very happy afterwords, that I did what I should do.

 

[Tsarina Andadora]

How was your Memorial? I was partaking the first time, joining the Beroeans. I felt very happy afterwords, that I did what I should do.

The first year I was out I did a "memorial". Now I partake when I have the opportunity. I actually went to a Resurrection Sunday service instead and I found it immensely encouraging.

 

[LeeB]

******NOT implying the trinity.

So, there's something I see in Jesus' words that I feel doesn't match with how most churches today view certain things. But I know this is something that, should I start attending another church, would probably cause a hardship for me to be able to do missions or be a part of any worship team.

So my question is, do I align my life to essentially be a pimo in that church? Or do I keep searching for a better/closer group of believers to be with?

I wish I could share what I truly feel I see about Jesus and how he defined worship and our obligations as Christians, but I can't at this time. But I also feel that my convictions are strong and come from a sound theological space. So I just wondered what y'all thought.

I faced what you are experiencing now 30 years ago and what I discovered was to go with what Jesus said because any other church would only add to the confusion you have already gone through. I also prayed that God would help me to better understand what Jesus and the Apostles preached. This is the job of the Fathers Spirit, Jesus told us that the Spirit is our teacher. Jesus gave his life so that we could have a connection with his Father through him. Too many people look to someone else as the mediator and teacher in the form of some person who claims they are of God when they are not. If you go to God and His Son you can’t go wrong but if you bring some other human in they are only in the way.

 

[Lori Jane]

Too many people look to someone else as the mediator and teacher in the form of some person who claims they are of God when they are not. If you go to God and His Son you can’t go wrong but if you bring some other human in they are only in the way.

Amen @LeeB !

 

[LeeB]

As an afterthought, if the Holy Spirit teaches all people in a small group the same things, which is what should happen if all members of that group are converted, would this be considered a high control situation ? I would think not. The writings of the Apostles put very strong emphasis on all saints speaking the same things and to follow the doctrine taught by the Spirit and preached by the apostles. There should be no man or woman that is in charge of a group as all in the group only recognize Jesus as their leader and the Holy Spirit as their teacher. This fact totally eliminates human error and attempted control. All people in the group can speak as the Spirit gives them words to speak but one at a time while the others consider to prevent confusion. The only church office that exists today in the true church is prophet and prophetess. This is the Spirit of Elijah at work in the saints to restore all things, the truth that was lost when men crept in unawares turning Gods truth into lies, myths and heresies. The small group that I fellowship with operates this way and we have been for 30 years.

 

[LeeB]

Hi Tsarina,
I found it also difficult, the groups I´ve found after leaving JW. One group or more believe in the trinity, other that Jesus didn´t exist before he was born on the earth. Horrible, it is possible I am not going to find any group that has got the truth. They all say they have got the Holy Spirit, but they don´t if their beliefs differ, because the spirit shoul explain everything. So where is the truth? I am also very confused. I just pray and wait for some explanation from God.

You are doing the right thing. God has and is the truth, men do not unless they have done what you are doing. Men try to be the Holy Spirit, the teacher and the are not.