General Church Vs State

[benadam1974]

"Paul sees the state as a tool of vengeance in Romans 13:4, but he never imagined that believers assume that role.
NT believers are not part of the present political world-system. They are resident aliens and should not be fighting in the wars of this world-system.
Satan’s kingdoms become the Kingdom of God only at the future seventh trumpet which signals the arrival of Messiah to rule with the saints (Rev. 11:15-18). Jesus did not attempt to interfere with politics at his first coming.
God will see that justice is ultimately done and Ps. 149 shows that the saints will in the future be involved in executing that justice. But they should not do this now (cp. Lk. 19:27; Rev. 2:26-27; Dan. 7:27)."

Anthony F. Buzzard

 

[Outcast]

"Paul sees the state as a tool of vengeance in Romans 13:4, but he never imagined that believers assume that role.
NT believers are not part of the present political world-system. They are resident aliens and should not be fighting in the wars of this world-system.
Satan’s kingdoms become the Kingdom of God only at the future seventh trumpet which signals the arrival of Messiah to rule with the saints (Rev. 11:15-18). Jesus did not attempt to interfere with politics at his first coming.
God will see that justice is ultimately done and Ps. 149 shows that the saints will in the future be involved in executing that justice. But they should not do this now (cp. Lk. 19:27; Rev. 2:26-27; Dan. 7:27)."

Anthony F. Buzzard

Well, I've seen and heard similar statements made, but I don't see that as concrete as Mr. Buzzard does.
Yes, Paul did speak of government bearing the sword for a purpose, but he also said that the rulers are there at God's choice. So, God is somehow involved in our human governments.

All through the Old Testament times, God's people were involved in fighting against those who God was against. I don't see that the Hebrew people were not "involved" in government.

During the time of the ministry of God's Son, the government of Judea was a theocracy being ruled over my the Romans. We do see that Jesus spoke harshly against the religious leaders for their behavior and interference with those who would see His role as the Messiah.

They were not in a democracy nor in a republic. It is difficult to attempt to draw a parallel between Judea of 2000 years ago and the U.S. We do know that the Jews of today have a government that is not a theocracy.

We don't operate the same way, but I do know that people believe that God still chooses who our political leaders are. What we don't know is His plan for Christian involvement.

Would God look favorably on those who exercise their responsibility to participate in what He has given us or would He see it as a bad thing?

I tend to see that God knows the responsibilities of the leaders of the family unit in caring for their clan. There are many ways to do that, and one of them may be to exercise our right to vote. One may or may not see that as a duty or a distraction. I do believe that failure to do all I can to protect and provide for family may be an error.

Despite where we fall along that questionable line, I still trust in the outcome as whatever God chooses.

 

[LeeB]

As I have mentioned previously, I am Apolitical. I place my hope in the promised kingdom of GOD. I view myself as an ambassador of that kingdom, I live in the world but have nothing to do with their governments or religions. I obey their laws and pay their taxes, I love GOD and my neighbor. I am under no obligation to fight in their wars or march and demonstrate for any of their causes. This world is headed for destruction and a new world will come, a world tomorrow, a righteous king ruling. While I wait I am fully aware of the dangers of this world and there are many. My prayers include the protection of GOD for HIS people and during the future great tribulation GOD seals the saints. The world is in a terrifying mess. The only way the living saints will survive until the return of Christ is by GODS will. I remember Isaiah 54:14,15,17 Each one of GODS saints must choose what they will allow or not allow in this physical existence based upon their own spiritual growth as a Christian. There will be good choices and bad choices and each of us will have our work, our choices, judged by fire. 1 Corinthians 3:10,11,12,13,14,15

 

[LeeB]

Another view of this issue is prophecy. Revelation states that the 7th king must fall to make way for the final eighth king, the antichrist. The 7th king is the U.S. as it is in the way of this effort by Satan to establish a seven year covenant and control a large portion of the world. Scripture does not reveal how this happens, however if you observe currently events it will be a combination of several evils. If we know prophecy is a sure word and the U.S. is doomed then efforts to save the U.S. will be in vain. It will also be against what GOD revealed to the prophets. Did not Paul say that in the last days perilous times would come, Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah and are we not seeing this ? The saints will feel pain from the fall worldwide but antichrist will cause a recovery, a false millennium with false and safety lasting 3 1/2 years. It will end when he declares himself GOD. Then the real tribulation comes but is cut short by 220 days when Christ returns.
The Apostle John after writing about all of this and the horror of it concluded with the words, “even so, come Lord Jesus”. All of GODS saints should be in agreement.

 

[Outcast]

Another view of this issue is prophecy. Revelation states that the 7th king must fall to make way for the final eighth king, the antichrist. The 7th king is the U.S. as it is in the way of this effort by Satan to establish a seven year covenant and control a large portion of the world. Scripture does not reveal how this happens, however if you observe currently events it will be a combination of several evils. If we know prophecy is a sure word and the U.S. is doomed then efforts to save the U.S. will be in vain. It will also be against what GOD revealed to the prophets. Did not Paul say that in the last days perilous times would come, Jesus said it would be like the days of Noah and are we not seeing this ? The saints will feel pain from the fall worldwide but antichrist will cause a recovery, a false millennium with false and safety lasting 3 1/2 years. It will end when he declares himself GOD. Then the real tribulation comes but is cut short by 220 days when Christ returns.
The Apostle John after writing about all of this and the horror of it concluded with the words, “even so, come Lord Jesus”. All of GODS saints should be in agreement.

Yes, I have considered this, and it is possible that we are seeing prophecy revealed right now. If it is now the time, it will happen no matter what I may do. I do want Lord Jesus to bring this all to fruition - and right away is OK with me.

 

[LeeB]

When the nation of Israel was young GOD was their king. Israel was under a system of judges that carried out what GOD instructed for the people. Later on the people wanted a human king like the other nations. 1 Samuel 8:5,6 This demand for a king was granted by GOD. GOD knew this would happen in eternity and is recorded in Deuteronomy 17:14,15 and GOD gave certain guidelines, Deuteronomy 17:16,17,18,19,20 and future kings violated them all. In 1 Samuel 8:9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18 GOD had Samuel warn the people but the people said, 1 Samuel 8:19,20 So GOD told Samuel to appoint a king, 1 Samuel 8:22

When you see the actions of the king do they remind you of what the U.S. and all nations do ? God had known in eternity what Jeremiah the prophet also knew, Jeremiah 10:17 Israel was a nation , along with a few other dnations in history, that GOD did directly choose their leader. We cannot say that GOD has directly chosen all human leaders. GOD allows people to choose who they want and reap what they sow, good or evil, Proverbs 29:2 , Proverbs 11:10 , Proverbs 28:12,15

What are the lessons that we can learn ? It matters not what type of government people have, humanity is not capable of self rule. Right now the saints are citizens of the kingdom of GOD and the order of this kingdom is, 1 Corinthians 11:3 1 Corinthians 3:23 Ephesians 1:22
By the will of GOD, Satan is the god of this age, Matthew 4:8,9 Luke 4:5,6,7 Humanity keeps making the same mistake again and again but the church of GOD has learned the lesson that the only true king is GOD.