English A Discussion on Preexistence
- Thread starter benadam1974
- Start date
Anything that is assumed without accurate scripture to support it is highly questionable. Things assumed cannot be viewed as doctrine. True doctrine will not cause conflict but must agree with all scripture, the word of God cannot be broken. The only preexisting being is Yahweh, everything that does exist was created by Him. Yahweh preexisted His creation in eternity and He is uncreated. This fact is one of Gods attributes that He alone possesses. God has declared that His son Jesus is the heir of all creation and that the saints share in his inheritance when entering the kingdom of God. God cannot and does not have a God but Jesus did, scripture plainly states this fact. Therefore, Jesus could not be preexisting because only God is. Confusing prophetic declarations with a current reality produces errors about Jesus being Yahweh. Surely the Holy Spirit would reveal to the saints that there is only one God, the Father. Those without the Holy Spirit are left to reason with carnal minds which leads to death. I would submit that the primitive Catholic Church was and is today being led by carnal minds. They preach another Jesus and another gospel that is false. Any group that does this cannot be Christian.
Tim essentially argues that God's wisdom and word had a specific beginning, "origin." And he waffled when Anthony asked "what about before Proverbs or John 1?" In other words, God was without wisdom or His words before then??
Tim also repeatedly said Jesus had "two beginnings," two origin; when Luke 1.35 says "he will be called Son of God" did not exclude the Son already in existence before then! And that Heb 1.1 did not exclude the Son speaking/acting in the OT. These are clearly nonsensical, if not unscriptural positions.
Tim was also factually incorrect at many points, e.g., "the word God throughout the Bible refers to some person." That is just not true since Paul refers to your stomach as ho theos (Phil 3.19).
BOTTOM LINE:
Literal preexistence people have to create a type or class of "spirit being" not taught in scripture, i.e., scripture says there is one God, angels, humans and animals. The preexistent Son or Word is some shadowy, nebulous figure that appears nowhere in the Hebrew Bible.